Kanna

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toastus

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Jan 3 09 11:23 PM

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(Please create a new section called Kanna for this thread)

This plant's active alkaloid is mesembrine, a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Mesembrine is also a PDE4 inhibitor, which should account for many of the adaptogenic effects.

As a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it should have many of the empathogenic effects of MDMA. Read this:
http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=372&z=5

Combined with phenethylamine, this could be a powerful combination. The fermented, powdered herb is offered for sale by many vendors on ebay so it should be easy to obtain and put in capsules.

DO NOT mix it with an MAO-A inhibitor. It will blow serotonin through the roof. I would like to experiment and see if it is safe to use with an MAO-B inhibitor like hordenine. I haven't seen any research on this. I would also like to know if it is safe to use with an aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibitor. I suspect it might not be but I don't know.

Would mesembrine itself be metabolized by aldehyde dehydrogenase? Would serotonin syndrome result from a large serotonin release combined with an aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibitor, or would the metabolized serotonin convert to a psychedelic? Ugh, so little information exists on this dangerous but potentially useful subject.

(on a side note, this could be a useful psychedelic: Mesembrine releases serotonin, which is metabolized by MAO into an aldehyde. ALDH inhibitors allow the metabolite to combine with dimethylamine or piperidine to form either bufotenine or its respective piperidine analog. This would be much easier than the tryptophan to DMT conversion because there is no 5-monooxygenase to inhibit, it's a straight shot)

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#1 [url]

Jan 5 09 4:24 PM

I really liked Kanna... I just ran out a few years ago and never restocked for some reason.  It was what i would use to raise spirits in a bad mood or to calm down if there was no other herbs available ;)

It gives you more energy, while at the same time calming you down... lights are way amplified, i've gotten tracers from taking about 3-5 dropperfuls of a tincture that i used to order online all the time.  SWIM might say it gives a rush kinda like extracts from the coca plant... SWIM doesn't like coca extracts at all, but I would definately recommend Kanna for its mood lifting abilities... it you could preload with L-Lysine and trip balls from it then even better.  This has some real potential. 

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toastus

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#4 [url]

Jan 15 09 10:50 PM

Possible bufotenine experience.
I think some lemon oil should also be taken, because bufotenine is notorious for causing nausea.

Headway will be made on this subject soon with a friend of mine.

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#7 [url]

Jan 17 09 12:20 AM

uhh care to elaborate on the basis of that conlusion, toast? 

@hendrix I just finished off a bottle of sceletium capsules I got off ebay from Barlowe's. On a few occasions 2 or 3 caps gave me some nice kind of skin tingle/shiver rushes reminiscent of coming up on some decent speed. It wasn't speedy though, more of an antidepressant or mood elevator. I broke open one of the caps and tried to smoke it, but the plant material was too finely ground to get any kind of good burn.

There's a lot of praise for the activity of Kanna on the web. I looked up the studies on it, but it's pretty sparse save for that recent paper describing its potent serotonin/PDE4 activity. This one seems like a real sleeper worthy of more experimentation.

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toastus

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#8 [url]

Jan 17 09 1:55 AM

Yes, mesembrine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, so it increases levels of serotonin in the synapse. This activates all serotonin receptors (5-HT2A mildly, which causes a "soft" feeling on the vision). 5-HT1A and a few others release oxytocin. 5-HT2B controls energy levels (or something? I'm not sure on this one) which contributes to the sedating effects of higher doses.

MDMA's famed effects are the feeling of love and empathy towards others. This is because it releases large amounts of serotonin. A large amount of the music enhancement comes from its release of dopamine and norepinephrine, but this is enhanced by the serotonin release.

Low doses feel stimulating and euphoric, and have little comedown effects. Higher doses are first stimulating and then sedating, and are very euphoric, but have a greater chance of having comedown effects.

I'm interested in its PDE4 inhibiting property, it should counteract sleep deprivation, which in my experience usually kills any possible euphoria. I've tried several phenethylamine mixes with a fully charged dopamine system but with sleep deprivation, and got almost no euphoria every time.

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#9 [url]

Jan 19 09 5:49 PM

I really enjoy kanna, smoking it on its own produces a nice mild feeling, I can see the comparison people get with mdma, but all in all I find it very different.  the feeling produced by kanna is like it makes you feel a little better and heightens your awareness of you if that makes any sense.  Mixes really well with weed, makes it so its far more of a high than a stone and removes the lack of motivation brought on by excessive pot.  Tastes pretty good to smoke kinda sour/sweet.  Mixes really well with kratom also makes it far more stimy but in a pleasant not over the top way, more like your awareness is increased.  The three of them together is one of my all time favorites. 

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toastus

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#10 [url]

Jan 19 09 9:17 PM

dmtubbler, SWIM came to the same conclusion last night that Kanna + Kratom + Cannabis would probably be one of the best combos in the world. He wants to try it soon.

On a side note, does anyone have experience smoking Kratom? I have a small amount of kratom and I'd like to extend its usefulness quite farther than I can get orally.

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#11 [url]

Jan 20 09 2:15 AM

I generally smoke kanna, as it has a nice flavor and the effects hit you instantly.  My advice is to smoke it before you smoke your weed.  For some reason it greatly increases the high but really only if you smoke it prior. 

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sativa

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#15 [url]

Feb 18 09 5:00 PM

dmtubbler, SWIM came to the same conclusion last night that Kanna + Kratom + Cannabis would probably be one of the best combos in the world

-toastus

What about using Glaucine (Yellow Poppy Extract) instead of Kratom?


The substance in question is an extract from Yellow Horned Poppy labeled “Glaucine hbr. 99% isolate, Origin Denmark.” I purchased this product from a reliable Canadian Entheogen supplier (I would be happy to share the company’s name and website upon request) and I have had a variety of experiences with the drug, all of which have been positive.

There is very little effect beyond mild relaxation when smoked, but orally it is active in doses over 100mg. After some experimentation my personal preferred dose is 180mg, but I have had positive results from doses ranging 100mg to 200mg. 180mg is approximately equivalent to 2-2.5 Percocet or a large dose of opium tea.

The effects are extremely enjoyable and very similar to opium poppy or the sedative effects of Kratom. The effects become apparent at t+45 min, peak at t+1.5h, and returns to baseline at t+5-6hrs. It comes on in waves of relaxation, pleasant euphoria, a general “melting” sensation, and sparkly dizzying head rushes similar to those of Kratom. It is also accompanies by a sort of softness or glow to one’s surroundings, and general contentment. Another bonus is that while the effects are clearly opiating, they are not accompanied a slowness or fuzziness of mind that I often get from other opiates. The trip is quite lucid, and I have even had very pleasurable experiences reading while on the drug. The only negative effects that I experienced were when I had taken 200mg: I became lethargic and easily distracted so I was unable to do anything but lie in my bed trying to decide what to do. It was a bit boring, but that was mainly due to the dosage. At lower doses I can function and enjoy activities, and at higher doses I would be content just lying there. Anyway, I recommend this substance to anyone who enjoys the effects of opiates. It is an enjoyable legal alternative, and at $30 CDN per gram the price just can’t be beat.

-http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=79784



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toastus

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#16 [url]

Feb 19 09 12:01 AM

Interesting. Glaucine can be bought from certain vendors for as cheap as $15 a gram... The problem is that's the same price I could get for Kratom extract of the same potency. 200 mg Kratom per dose, $16.99 for 1 gram. It's nice to have both but do we even know if Glaucine works by agonizing the mu Opioid receptor?

It is a nice option though in case Kratom becomes unavailable.

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