kratom combinations

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Oct 28 08 10:26 PM

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I hope to draw up a list of some kratom potentiators. I have heard that loperamide (which is found in immodium) works quite well when used beforehand. The old favourite, grapefruit juice seems to work well too. Black pepper is also mentioned but I do not know if it is piperine or piperidine which is needed here. Any ideas?

Are there any p450 inhibitors that work well with kratom? I presume there are as grapefruit juice potentiates it supposedly. Perhaps, german chamomile and cinnamon oil?

Last Edited By: user name Jan 26 11 6:25 PM. Edited 1 time

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#1 [url]

Oct 28 08 11:35 PM

A therapeutical dose of DXM potentiates the kratom turn and will make it last longer. But SWIY shouldn't use too much, or it will distort his turn. 30mg works great for SWIM.

“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

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69ron

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#2 [url]

Oct 30 08 12:38 AM

To potentiate kratom, you need to induce CYP2D6 (the same enzyme seems to also help potentiate elemicin). If you are low in CYP2D6 kratom will have almost no effects (just like elemicin).

The only herb I know of that’s said to induce CYP2D6 is valerian. Valerian root essential oil is the best bet (about 3 drops or so). Valerian root essential oil is known to potentiate DXM and elemicin.

The other enzyme to inhibit is CYP3A4. There are a lot of inhibitors of CYP3A4, but unfortunately a lot of them also inhibit CYP2D6, so they are mostly useless.

licorice, clove leaf oil (eugenol), and cinnamon bark oil are probably the best CYP3A4 inhibitors which don’t also inhibit CYP2D6.

Take a look at the oilahuasca section of the forum for more information on P450 enzyme inhibitors:

Fact Sheet: Oilahuasca P450 Inhibitors

I never tried kratom, so this is all based on my knowledge of kratom metabolism and P450 inhibitors.

Maggy, we need a kratom section in our forum. Thiss is a very popular herb.


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#3 [url]

Nov 2 08 11:08 PM

SWIM drank a tea made from blue lotus on his kratom turn, he said it was very nice and potentiated his turn in a very enjoyable way

“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

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#4 [url]

Nov 27 08 6:54 PM

Afof (a friend of a friend) has been using kratom for quite some time now and has given me some interesting suggestions for potentiating kratom.  One is the use of antihistamines such a benadryl.  It is possibly arguable that this only increases sedation, though.  Afof is prescribed hydroxyzine for anxiety and insomnia and this is a great potentiator.  

Another otc option is phenibut.  Afof's understanding is that it is essentially gaba that has been modified to allow it to cross the bbb.  Use with caution because it can potentially have NASTY withdrawal if used inappropriately.  

Afof has recently taken a liking to black cummin seed oil (nigella sativa).  He informs me that about a tablespoon has significant mu opiod receptor agonist action on its own and is especially enjoyable when combined with kratom.  

He also agrees with wolf that blue lotus makes a nice addition to kratom but is skeptical of the active chemical's solubility in water and recommends eating the flower rather than making tea.

Afof finds that dl-phenylalanine slows the come-up of kratom but also significantly prolongs its effects.

He says that while not technically potentiators kratom users may be interested in agmatine sulfate and proglumide.  Both are useful for managing tolerance.  The first is a nutritional supplement that among other things is an nmda antagonist.  The second used to be prescribed to treat stomach ulcers but with the advent of new medications is no longer available for that use.  It reduces tolerance due to cck inhibition and is available online.

Afof has received a package of many herbs he expects to be useful for potentiating kratom and I will report back when I hear about the results.

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#5 [url]

Jun 11 09 2:25 PM

To potentiate kratom, you need to induce CYP2D6 (the same enzyme seems to also help potentiate elemicin). If you are low in CYP2D6 kratom will have almost no effects (just like elemicin).

-69ron

Since this information has been proven incorrect in regards to elemicin, is it also untrue for kratom?  I am on Wellbutrin XL, a strong cyp2d6 inhibitor, and I was able to get good effects from kratom recently.

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#6 [url]

Jun 14 09 2:10 AM

You should check out mulungu. The bulk herb is quite affordable, and the tea doesn't taste bad. This is good for those people that like the sedated/nodding out type of effects. I haven't tried it with kratom, but it works nicely in conjunction with my prescription opiate medication.

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#7 [url]

Mar 19 10 1:48 AM

I have copied from various internet sites the following combo's to explore:

Turmeric synergizes with Kratom.
Agreed about the turmeric combo (turmeric needs potentiating with ginger/black pepper or bioperine) with kratom, it has great anti-inflamatory benefits.

White grapefruit juice... old trick but works really well,eating the peel works better.It contains quinine and psoralen.Eat it half a hour before you take the kratom.
Starfruit is better than grapefruit it makes it last longer and stronger.
Turmeric that little herb works well,mix strains using different powders,keep the mind "fresh".
Cayenne pepper,helps to absorb the kratom better.
Supplements or just eat a good amount of spinach,prior to taking your kratom.
Magnesium keeps your tolerance low.
Ginseng or ginseng leaves prior to taking it.
Salt even apparently works so say the guinea pigs.
20mg of Kanna half a hour before using your kratom,I'm told you only need 50% of kratom.
Yogurt is a good way to ingest it,it works for me and not bad at all.  This may keep it in the stomach longer for better absorbtion.
If you add 1% caffeine to kratom the effects are stronger.
A glass or two of tonic water works some found to potentiate.

  1. Starfruitworks better than grapefruit juice i'd say,and eat spiced up spinach,and i've read chocolate 2-3 hours in extends the duration,not so sure on this trick though.
Inhibitors of CYP3A4 Bergamottin ,found principally in grapefruit juice. It is also found in the oil of bergamot, earl grey tea ,
CYP2D6 Inducers : Piperidine found in black pepper

White grapefruit juice drunk prior potentiates as it does with opium.
A bit of alcohol (or just hot liquids) drank after the dose may help it absorb.

Tums, lemon tek, anti-histamine, DXM, Magnesium and Ashghawanda (both tolerance reducers and stabilizers), Kava, Kanna, (to a mild extent) Tylenol and Ibuprofen, Benzos (I would advise against this), Kraton Extract (potentiates plain leaf), and Weed (a really euphoric combo.).Also muscle/skeletal relaxers, hypnotics (like Ambien), and Neurontin and Gabapentin.
Loperamide/Tagamet/Immodium also potentiates and extends just as it does with opium: "if I've preloaded on Imodium it seems like Kratom keeps me content a good 3-4 hours or more."
However this method of potentiation is not recommended due to the shitting of bricks that may occur by combining these two constipating substances (kratom+loperamide).

Antihistamines are often used to decrease the itch and increase the "nod" with opiates; perhaps they could be useful here as I hear the itch is often present in the stronger Kratom experiences.

I have heard mixed reports on mixing Nigella sativa (black seed) oil with Kratom for potentiation... but it is probably worth a shot.

Low dose (~50mg) DXM is also said by some to potentiate low doses of Kratom.
Also see:  http://forums.lycaeum.org/index.php?topic=25768.0

Without prejudice. Everything I write is a work of fiction.

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#9 [url]

Mar 19 10 5:49 PM

I don't know; but I and another user have found 2 starfruits by themselves are more than powerful enough to activate Methyl chavicol... 

Without prejudice. Everything I write is a work of fiction.

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#10 [url]

Mar 19 10 11:35 PM




I don't know; but I and another user have found 2 starfruits by themselves are more than powerful enough to activate Methyl chavicol... 

-flickedbic

Not only activate it, but it definitely produced the most pleasant and longest lasting MC trip I've ever had. It made the journey last twice as long for myself and it went just about as perfectly as I could imagine a Basil Trip going. 

I would say you need no more than two star fruits for activation, 20 minutes before dosing. Obviously each person has a different chemistry, so this could vary by +/- half of a star fruit or so.

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#12 [url]

Jan 24 11 10:23 PM

Any updates here? I've used Curcumin and Bioperine with limited success but perhaps I'm not using enough Curcumin (half capsule of NOW brand). Fit dine reason, I find using more Curcumin to be anxiogenic.

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#13 [url]

Mar 30 11 7:26 AM

Fluoxetin? It's a CYP2D6-Inhibitor, if i got this right? One dose of k. works almost 2 days for me, mood lift and afterglow included.
On the other Hand the comedown to me is of a mean Quality and rather lengthy. Not really comparable to opiates wd's besides a few chills and very low mood and fatigue.

After 6 weeks latest of daily intake dysphoria takes over and if i stop it takes almost as long for me to recover again - included some rather serious Depression, Fatigue and so on.

Renders k. almost useless to me, which is a damned shame since it's just what the doctor should prescribe for my condition.
Since i never heard of something like that i guess it must be my medication - several SSRI, SNRI and so on (inc. Fluoxetin).
I seriously wish i knew a solution for this.  

(sorry again for my english, i fear i must sound somehow ... strange :)

Last Edited By: minderbinder Mar 30 11 7:43 AM. Edited 3 times.

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