Mexamine, the Dream Molecule?

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toastus

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Aug 16 08 5:31 AM

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Supposedly serotonin is converted to melatonin like this: serotonin - N-acetyl-serotonin - melatonin
And dreams are supposedly caused by a lowering of acetylcholine.
I don't buy that one bit.

Another metabolic pathway involves mexamine: serotonin - mexamine - melatonin.

Mexamine is 5-MeO-Tryptamine. It is found in the body and has full agonist properties at all serotonin receptors (except 5-HT3).

It has been proven that when serotonin binds to 5-HT2A, the classical psychedelic receptor, it does NOT fully activate it! Different proteins that are permanently in place are activated when hallucinogens bind to that receptor than when serotonin binds to it. I can find the study later, but I guarantee that is true.

So, what does mexamine do? Well, I came across an amazing trip report where a guy put some melatonin on his cannabis and smoke it and it made him slightly tired, but also brought on a waking-dream state. The dream overlapped reality just like a hallucinogen does, but he was still able to function normally. I tried SO hard to find this report again, but I couldn't find it. It wasn't on erowid, I found it through google.

So what happened with that experience is burning melatonin at the right temperature causes deacetylation. Melatonin turns into mexamine. He started dreaming while he was awake.

More proof is that mexamine levels increase in alternating fashion with melatonin at night. There was a study done on it, I will find it later (I really need to start saving these studies... lol). In the day there are high levels of serotonin, but at night the brain converts it to melatonin. But, when REM sleep starts, the brain converts melatonin to mexamine. When the dream ends, mexamine turns back into melatonin.

I'm not sure if mexamine causes all of the effects of dreams (like acetylcholine inhibition). Actually I highly doubt that, I think most of those effects are caused by melatonin, although I need more proof of that. I'm pretty sure mexamine causes your brain to build reality inside itself based off of what it has experienced already, instead of what is coming through the senses.

So this means if we synthesized mexamine we could use it as a dreaming molecule. Unfortunately, the xlogp3 is 0.57, so... Hahahaha

It really is a miracle that guy got any visuals at all from mexamine. Perhaps it will work for us. too?

OR, we could attach a carboxyl group to the alpha carbon and make an amino acid! Or we could methylate the oxygen on 5-HTP. Using this, we could first ingest EGCG to block all the decarboxylases in the body (but EGCG doesn't cross the BBB, so no enzymes in the brain are stopped) and then ingest 5-MeO-Tryptophan. In the brain it would decarboxylate into mexamine and we would start dreaming while awake.

That sounds like an INCREDIBLY useful tool! It also shows us why psychedelics work like they do. They work on our dreaming receptor!

So, the endogenous ligand of the 5-HT2A receptor is Mexamine. DMT and several other hallucinogens are also there, but they don't play as major of a role as mexamine. I've felt the effects of DMT and others from taking tryptophan with EGCG and TMG, so it could still be a part of the theory.

Or maybe I didnt! Maybe the CEV's I got were from Mexamine! :O !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And then, somewhere down the line, the actual cause of the ability to see in dreams is because 5-HT2A activates D2. It's just MUCH more highly controlled and realistic. :D

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#1 [url]

Aug 16 08 2:12 PM

How did this guy smoke the melatonin?  I have some on hand.  Hmmm ...

"There are two ways to slide easily through life: to believe everything or to doubt everything. Both ways save us from thinking." - Alfred Korzybski

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toastus

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#3 [url]

Aug 16 08 8:56 PM

He put it on a bowl of cannabis and burned it. As for any further details I'm not sure. But I am POSITIVE that the dream state was not due to cannabis. :)

Thanks muvieri. I'm getting some melatonin soon as well, so I want to try it out.

Maybe we can cook melatonin at the proper temperature so it will decarboxylate slowly and uniformly?

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toastus

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#5 [url]

Aug 17 08 1:05 AM

Thanks! I promise, it has nothing to do with expanding my mind.

At all.

Ever.

But for SWIM it does. He talks to me a lot. All these ideas come from him. :D

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#8 [url]

Aug 17 08 8:19 AM


I've smoked melatonin before and i remember it giving me a pot-like stoning. i don't think it was bowl resin but i don't really remember that far back. it never gave me more vivid dreams no matter the route of administration. 

"Life lived in the absence of the psychedelic experience that primordial shamanism is based on is life trivialized, life denied, life enslaved to the ego." herbs.maxforum.org Kambo.tk

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#10 [url]

Oct 30 08 5:03 AM

Looks like it makes ones' balls shrink.

Involution - 1 involution reduction in size of an organ or part...
 
I wonder if melatatonin would inhibit this involution as I have (briefly) read may occur in some mammals.
 
Blessings.

Without prejudice. Everything I write is a work of fiction.

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#12 [url]

Jan 3 09 6:49 PM

HA! We should try this!
[url]
This guy took melatonin and Vitamin B6 and they consistently increased the quality (and psychedelicness) of his dreams. Sounds sweet!

-toastus


100mg 5-htp
5-10mg melatonin
250mg vitamin B6 (before and on waking for a total of 500mg)
valerian - i do not quite have the dosage for valerian but keep it low and active seems best
i take 6 of these
though i imagine valerian EO might be way more effective.
also DO NOT take this lightly if you have not lucid dreamed before, like seriously if you have never experienced intense time dilation and you get these to work the way i can be prepared.
its not important you take it 2 nights in a row but even if you took a few days break the second usage will have your body conditioned for the B6 morning hit and it should all come crashing back for a good laugh.

i have not worked out the timing for these and order, any and all help for this would be greatly appreciated.

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#14 [url]

Jan 5 09 6:44 PM

I read that report on erowid a long time ago and tried using melatonin, B6, and valerian together every night for up to a week at a time about a year ago and only occasionally noticed a slight increase in dream recall. It really didn't effect me enough to be worth it, but I always have high tolerance to most compounds so maybe other people can get it to work.

Edit: I should also mention that I very rarely ever remember any dreams at all, so IMO there is some potential for this combo.

All hail King Neptune and his water breathers!!!! maayyonaaaze!

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toastus

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#16 [url]

Jan 8 09 7:44 PM

Maybe we should try vitamin B9 instead. It is the molecule that allows serotonin-o-methyl-transferase to convert serotonin to mexamine.

Taking melatonin might slow the body's metabolism of serotonin to melatonin, allowing more serotonin to convert to mexamine.

5-HTP would make more serotonin that could be converted.

Depending on how mexamine is created from serotonin, a serotonin reuptake inhibitor might be of use.

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#17 [url]

Jun 6 09 10:20 PM

Hey toastus, have you tried any new methods to get this to work yet? Just curious. This last post you made here about vitamin B9 is news to me, it seems like an interesting theory to try.

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toastus

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#18 [url]

Jun 7 09 1:37 AM

No I haven't, I've been juggling dozens of tests around my tolerance schedule. I hope to eventually get it done and find a way to make a lucid waking-dream mix! :D

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#20 [url]

Jun 7 09 1:27 PM

SWIM is able to freely slip into and out of waking-lucid dreams using basil oil, cannabis, inhibitor 6b,
SWIM made the 6b at home from the sites ingredient list just collecting the bits needed, also my 6b has star anise oil added anyway i lay rolling papers flat on a surface and put 1-2 drops on each paper, 1 basil paper 1 6b paper and 1 hash oil paper, after drying smoke all in bong. hold smoke in for 20 seconds, as you exhale lower your eyelids so they are barely open, i am fairly certain with even minor sacrament like cannabis just with both eyes half shut one could easily hop in and out of lucidity wile waking, cannabis aside i have learned how to get my body to make DMT surges all on its own the trick is the point at witch you think of as the "peak" of the strongest expereince you have ever had in your life well the experience of life is like that at every second regardless of what substances you are taking or not taking, all the substances do is make you able to more easily notice the other side that is always present, there is no going up or down the "peak" is just a moment of heightened remembrance things were always that intense, the plant teacher simply allowed you to remember how beautiful everything was because you had allowed the blinders to close in, the trick is basically to go around always remembering the highest "peak" you have experienced and don't try to think this but try to feel and remember that that is how things always are always have been and always will be, just because they don't appear to be anything like that "peak" right now does not mean they are not that "peak" right now.

also the following seem to be effective at getting basil to work 100% of the time. i use echinachea orally and transdermally (alcoholic tincture) i use inhibitor 6b transdermally, and via inhalation have not taken 6b orally yet

for those without access to all the ingredients in 6b
echinachea
almond extract
star anise oil
tangerine oil
if you have orange oil that helps
as inhibitors followed by basil oil is more than enough to get basil working in 100% of people.

i intend on buying bitter almond essential oil locally (10$) so i can add benzaldehyde to my 6b formula, i may or may not try to find or make a smoke able echinachea extract

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