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Tripping from Allspice! YEA!

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Jul 2 08 4:23 AM

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Tripping from Allspice! grin

You know I’ve been basil tripping for some time here and there. I’ve got a tiny vial of basil trip capsules I made (keep the capsules upright and they won’t leak) that I used here and there. I’ve been loving it.

I recently got a bottle of Mexican allspice oil as a gift. First thing I did was look on this site for some info. I’m thinking maybe it’s like basil right. So I’m reading, reading, and see some tests here on this forum that didn’t seem to pan out. I look on other forums. Nothing anywhere.

I did some calculation and figured I’d start form Ron’s tests, but using Mexican allspice oil instead of the powder. I figure about 12 drops of oil is a little more than Ron’s tests would be if he used oil instead of powder.

I did my homework. I decided to give white grapefruit juice a try for this oilahuasca seeing as how Ron tried different inhibitors and they didn’t do it.

Here’s how it went down.

I drink 2 cups of white grapefruit juice. God that’s awful tasting crap. I take a capsule of 3 drops German chamomile oil with it.

I wait half an hour and take 12 drops of Allspice oil in a tiny capsule.

Holy fucking shit, in 5 minutes I got a serious rush. That got me hella nervous. I didn’t expect it to hit me like that. 10 minutes and the rush is stronger and things are looking different. I got visuals that I don’t know how to explain. It was not like basil visuals. Everything was like it was vibrating. Everything is looking soft, squishy. I don’t know how to explain it. This was not your typical visuals. It was sort of like looking at a reflection in the water. If you stared, things drifted a bit. Colors were brighter too.

In about 1 hour it was hella strong but the rush was gone, and then like 15 minutes later its starting to get weaker pretty fast. It was like boom, wow, and then aw man it’s over, but not quite. It could feel it a little bit all day but it was hella weak.

It had a slow steady energy to it. Not jolting. Not at all electric. It was soft. Without any edge to it. I felt mild euphoria all day.

This was nothing like basil tripping. I felt like I was on shrooms sort of, but then not really.

The rush was there for the first bit, but them it flattened out a lot.

So now I have two oils to have fun with!

This one feels like it needs to be taken with a good long lasting stimulant. Any suggestion?

I get energy from basil tripping. I think I might be mixing the two in the future.

How should I mix basil oil with allspice oil? If I use grapefruit juice (god that’s nasty) is that going to mess up the basil oil? Anyone do this before?

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69ron

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#1 [url]

Jul 2 08 9:10 AM

Very nice post!

Its good to see someone else experimenting with Mexican allspice. I should mention that some allspice oil is high in eugenol, and 12 drops of such oil would not be very pleasant. Make sure your oil is low in eugenol. Mexican allspice is, but some others are not.

I’m not sure how methyl chavicol (the active psychedelic in basil oil) will be if taken with white grapefruit juice. It might not work well. I never tried it. Grapefruit juice really messes up elemicin, but I believe that’s because it inhibits CYP2D6. I don’t think that should matter for methyl chavicol, but I’m not 100% sure on that.

I would give a basil and allspice combo a try with the grapefruit juice. I would add German chamomile and cinnamon bark oil to make sure the methyl chavicol and methyl eugenol are protected from 1-hydroxylation. 1-hydroxylation really messes up methyl chavicol and I’m sure it will also mess up methyl eugenol, which is the main active in allspice oil. Grapefruit juice doesn’t protect these oils from 1-hydroxylation all that well.

The fact that you got this working with grapefruit juice as part of the oilahuasca inhibitor matrix means that most likely quercetin will work stand alone as a replacement, and that CYP2D6 inhibition leads to psychedelic action with methyl eugenol, and without it inhibited you get the effects I got, which was not psychedelic. Either that or my dose was just not high enough.

In my last Mexican allspice powder test I used German chamomile oil and cinnamon bark oil as the inhibitors, and the net result was ineffective. I believe this is because the P450 enzyme CYP2D6 was left active and it did something to methyl eugenol to inactivate it (making both eugenol and chavibetol from the methyl eugenol, I believe).

If you have quercetin, try using that as the sole inhibitor. I’ll bet it will work wonders with methyl eugenol.

It would be nice to be able to make a mix of methyl eugenol, methyl chavicol and elemicin that worked. I’m not sure if it’s possible though. I think CYP2D6 needs to be inhibited for methyl eugenol to work, and needs to be active for elemicin to work. Maybe not. If elemicin has higher affinity for CYP2D6 than methyl eugenol has, then it will act as the CYP2D6 inhibitor. This is possible.

It’s always possible to dose the elemicin and methyl chavicol first, with CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibited and with CYP2D6 active. And then 15-30 minutes later, inhibit CYP2D6 and then dose the methyl eugenol. Sounds complicated though.

At some point I’ll try taking these three together simultaneously. Hopefully elemicin has higher affinity for CYP2D6 and will prevent it from attacking methyl eugenol.

Actually elemi oil is stronger than pure elemicin, when you factor in how little elemicin it contains. Something in it acts as a booster of elemicin. I know elemi oil contains a little methyl eugenol. Maybe that’s boosting the effects of elemicin? Nutmeg oil is also more potent than the pure myristicin and elemicin it contains, when you factor in how little it contains. It too contains a little methyl eugenol. Maybe that’s the booster in both of these oils? I’m not sure. It’s worth looking into.

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hendrix

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#2 [url]

Jul 3 08 12:59 AM

I've got to try this! But I can't find Mexican allspice oil anywhere. If I bought some allspice oil, how can I tell if it's high in eugenol or high in methyl eugenol?

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

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#3 [url]

Jul 3 08 1:22 AM

This is the first I heard of allspice being psychoactive. I know cloves are.
 
I have used allspice oil in cooking, and also clove oil. Allspice is good for pumpkin pie. A few drops per pie is good. It's not as strong tasting as clove oil. Clove oil is mostly eugenol. Allspice is mostly methyl eugenol. I have not tasted allspice oil that tasted like clove oil. I don’t think most allspice oil is high in eugenol. Some might be.

Jamaican allspice oil is the most common oil available. I keep reading that Jamaican allspice is high in eugenol, but there’s a chemotype of Jamaican allspice that’s high in methyl eugenol. I think the high methyl eugenol chemotype is what most places use to make the essential oil from. I never saw allspice oil that smelled or tasted anything like clove oil. Clove oil has a strong bite because of the eugenol content. I would expect allspice oil to have the same bite if it was high in eugenol.

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toastus

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#4 [url]

Jul 3 08 3:18 PM

Most solid allspice is the eugenol chemotype, from what I've seen. But it's possible that most essential oils are of the methyl eugenol chemotype, which would be extremely useful!

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hendrix

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Jul 4 08 2:32 AM

I don't want a eugenol experience. I would hate to get allspice oil high in eugenol. Why doesn't anyone sell Mexican allspice oil?

PussyKat, I know you hardly ever post on this forum, but the next time you're on can you PM me were your friend got the oil from? I want to get Mexican allspice oil specifically.

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

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#6 [url]

Jul 13 08 2:12 AM

The Mexican Allspice oil was made in Mexico, purchased at an open market. The brand is "Mi Hierba". I can’t find it anywhere in the US.

This stuff is cool but I can’t get it working good with basil.

How can I get it to work with basil? I tired using cinnamon and chamomile with it, and then only the basil works and the allspice doesn’t.
The grapefruit juice that works for allspice fucks up the basil hella bad.plain

I have quercetin capsules I got at the store. I wanna try this out like tomorrow and shit. How much should I use?

I also want to use a long lasting stim with it. Any good suggestions?


Meow...scratch scratch!

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69ron

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Sep 8 08 9:23 PM

I’ve been able to get a pretty good trip from allspice. However, I found that I get tolerance to methyl eugenol pretty fast (assuming methyl eugenol is the active in allspice). I can’t take it two days in a row without very noticeable tolerance developing. The effects seem to last pretty long, at least 18 hours altogether. It seems to peak after 1-3 hours. The peak is not consistent, maybe because of different active metabolites forming in different ratios each time.

In testing out different inhibitors, I found that German chamomile isn’t needed for allspice. I was able to activate it using 1 cup of coffee, 150 mg cinnamon oil, 200 ml cilantro oil, 5 grams of black pepper tea (all solids filtered out), and 3 ml of almond extract. The amount of Mexican allspice needed (15 grams) comes to approximately 500 mg of essential oil. Everything was taken at once (the oils in a capsule) in the coffee.

The experience was not the same as a fully activated elemicin trip. It was very “mescaline-ish”, with very soft visuals. Lots of euphoria. Not so electric, very smooth. This is probably the smoothest allylbenzene I’ve tried. Your body feels loose, relaxed, slightly stimulated. It’s very nice. With this combination of inhibitors it did not have any tryptamine-like feel like it has had previously.

I chose my inhibitors based on the famous Space Paste. Here’s a rundown of each inhibitor and what it most likely does.

* Coffee – mildly inhibits CYP1A2 for only a very short time. It has another action that increases the effects of all allylbenzenes. I don’t know what action is responsible for that. It’s not the CYP1A2 inhibition.
* Cinnamon oil – use to strongly inhibit CYP1A2. Also used to competitively inhibit aldehyde dehydrogenase for a short period.
* Cilantro oil – contains a ton of aldehydes. Used to competitively inhibit aldehyde dehydrogenase for a short period of time.
* Black pepper – contains piperidine, used to supply piperidine to help methyl eugenol for it’s piperidine alkaloid metabolite, which is likely the most psychedelic alkaloid metabolite of methyl eugenol.
* Almost extract – contains benzaldehyde. This is used to augment cinnamon’s CYP2A6 inhibition, and to also to competitively inhibit aldehyde dehydrogenase for a short period.

Because all of these are competitive inhibitors, which short inhibition action, they are all taken at the same time with the allspice.

There’s likely to be unknown additional actions in these herbal ingredients that contribute to the activation of allspice.

I am curious if this set of inhibitors will also work for other allylbenzenes, specifically elemicin.

PussyKat, you might try the mix above. See if that works for methyl chavicol (basil). I have a good feeling that it will.

I think one issue with a lot of these allylbenzenes is aldehyde dehydrogenase (or possibly the very similar aldehyde oxidase) in humans preventing the intermediate aldehyde metabolites of allylbenzenes from forming alkaloids by turning them into carboxylic acids incapable of forming alkaloids with endogenous dimethylmine, piperidine, or pyrrolidine. Only the aldehyde (or epoxide) metabolites of allylbenzenes can form alkaloids. The aldehydes (and epoxides) are apparently made by the P450 enzyme system. It’s possible that CYP2E1 is doing this, but I don’t know. CYP2E1 is known to add oxygen to the end of allylic side chains, usually forming epoxides that can then form aldehydes.

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hendrix

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Sep 9 08 12:20 AM

You say methyl eugenol is active but it different from elemicin. But then how you describe it sounds like elemicin to me. Can you be more specific? What exactly about it is different? The duration? The peak? The potency?

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

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69ron

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Sep 9 08 2:27 AM

You say methyl eugenol is active but it different from elemicin. But then how you describe it sounds like elemicin to me. Can you be more specific? What exactly about it is different? The duration? The peak? The potency?

-hendrix

Here’s a rundown of their onset, peak, and duration times. E stands for elemicin, M for methyl eugenol.
 
E Onset:     0:30 - 1:00 hrs
M Onset:     0:15 - 1:30 hrs
E Peak:      1:30 - 2:00 hrs
M Peak:      1:00 - 3:00 hrs
E Duration:  6:00 - 8:00 hrs
M Duration: 12:00 -18:00 hours

Elemicin feels less like mescaline than methyl eugenol does, but is about 2-3 times more potent. Elemicin is not as soft. It’s got a crisper feel. It’s more electric.

Neither have much psychedelic effects on the mind. In that respect they are about the same.

The body feel of methyl eugenol is more pleasant, softer, smoother.

I would put the two in the same category as mescaline in terms of their effects.

I get the feeling that at higher doses methyl eugenol will not produce effects as deep as elemicin can.

I can use elemicin two days in a row without any noticeable tolerance. With methyl eugenol, there is very noticeable tolerance the following day.

Elemicin has more of an uplifting effect. Methyl eugenol is more relaxed.

I have yet to experience a full blown trip from methyl eugenol. I have experienced such from elemicin. It’s hard to get the full effects of elemicin though. It often doesn’t reach its full potential and is something very disappointing. Methjyl eugenol seems to be more consitent in being able to activate it.

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hendrix

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Nov 6 08 8:50 AM

Ron, the new Elemi X Booster has allspice added to it. Why do you think that is? What could allspice do to help activate other allylbenzenes?

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

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69ron

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Apr 5 09 2:16 PM

I finally got around to trying allspice oil transdermally. I used 5 drops along with 1 drop of aniseed oil. I did get very mild effects, but it was too mild to be called psychedelic. It was pleasantly stimulating, euphoric, but nothing beyond that. Effects were felt in about 10 minutes and peaked at about 3 hours. Total effects lasted about 8 hours.

Methyl eugenol appears to be very weak compared with elemicin. Probably a dose of at least 20 drops transdermally will be needed for some mild psychedelic effects.

Ron, the new Elemi X Booster has allspice added to it. Why do you think that is? What could allspice do to help activate other allylbenzenes?

-hendrix

Methyl eugenol is partially metabolized to hydroxychavicol which is a very potent xanthine oxidase inhibitor. See this article:

“Hydroxychavicol is a more potent xanthine oxidase inhibitor than allopurinol, which is clinically used for the treatment of hyperuricemia”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19387769%2C19387770?dopt=Abstract

That’s one possible reason.

The phenethylamine form of methyl eugenol is known as 3,4-Dimethoxyphenethylamine. According to human tests as much as 1000 mg of 3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine had no effects at all. More info about it is found here:

http://isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/read.php?domain=pk&id=60

The amphetamine form known as 3,4-dimethoxyamphetamine is active. This produces mescaline-like effects. More details are found here:

http://isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/read.php?domain=pk&id=55

This indicates to me that the phenethylamine form of methyl eugenol would probably be active, but isn’t because of either MAO or SSAO. Much like how phenethylamine isn’t active at doses below 1000 mg in most people without an MAO-B inhibitor.

Methyl eugenol does potentiate elemicin in me, making it more mescaline-like, more visual in a way similar to caffeine or phenethylamine. It’s a nice combination. Methyl eugenol is very weak on its own though. It’s maybe 5-10 times less potent than elemicin.

I have the feeling that methyl eugenol inhibits SSAO. It alters the effects of elemicin in a way very similar to the SSAO inhibitors caffeine and phenethylamine. But until I try a potent SSAO inhibitor, I can’t be sure if SSAO is what’s doing the alteration or not.

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#12 [url]

Apr 14 09 2:24 AM

More visual in a way similar to caffeine? I have no idea what you could possibly mean by that.

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