Clove oil: an antidepressant MAOI inhibitor

Rss     Subscribe     Share     Tweet    


0 Points

Lead

Apr 12 08 11:50 AM

Tags : :

Clove leaf oil contains mostly eugenol. Eugenol is used mostly for toothache relief. But it also has many other functions outlined in other threads. I did not know it was an MAO inhibitor of subtype A. This research  here shows it has MAO subtype A inhibiting action:

Eugenol (1) is an active principle of Rhizoma acori graminei, a medicinal herb used in Asia for the treatment of symptoms reminiscent of Alzheimer’s disease (AD). It has been shown to protect neuronal cells from the cytotoxic effect of amyloid β peptides (Aβs) in cell cultures and exhibit antidepressant-like activity in mice. Results from this study show that eugenol inhibits monoamine oxidase A (MAOA) preferentially with a Ki = 26 μM. It also inhibits MAOB but at much higher concentrations (Ki = 211 μM). In both cases, inhibition is competitive with respect to the monoamine substrate. Survey of compounds structurally related to eugenol has identified a few that inhibit MAOs more potently. Structure activity relationship reveals structural features important for MAOA and MAOB inhibition. Molecular docking experiments were performed to help explain the SAR outcomes. Four of these compounds, two (1, 24) inhibiting MAOA selectively and the other two (19, 21) inhibiting neither MAOA nor MAOB, were tested for antidepressant-like activity using the forced swim test in mice. Results suggest a potential link between the antidepressant activity of eugenol and its MAOA inhibitory activity.

The rest of that article is found here

Quote    Reply   

#1 [url]

Oct 10 08 5:01 PM

SWIM has recently tried Clove oil a few times and would compare its effect to somewhere between an opiate, rue, and kanna... very similar to kanna in the way it makes things brighter and just feels so darn nice.  I think kanna is an SSRI which is similar to MAOI but a little more selective. 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

69ron

fanatic

Posts: 1,678

#2 [url]

Oct 10 08 8:05 PM

An opiate, rue, and kanna? Interesting. I can see the opiate similarities.

What dose of clove oil did you use? Did you use an inhibitor with it?

Quote    Reply   

#3 [url]

Oct 11 08 3:15 PM

I have no idea how long these inhibitors stay in you system but SWIM tried about 3-5 drops of the clove bud oil by itself and possibly with other oils still in the system.  In about an hour there is a very potent rush thats similar to what SWIM gets from a few mg of percocet.... colors get a little amplified, euphoria, it feels to SWIM more like an opiate than an MAOI like syrian rue, and more energetic than kanna by far.  Haven't got the oilahuascas to work yet but this one on its own is very satisfying for SWIM

Quote    Reply   
avatar

hendrix

superstar

Posts: 646

#4 [url]

Oct 11 08 3:43 PM

Sounds like your body is low on CYP2D6, so elemicin probably won't work for you. I only get the kind of effects you talk about if I inhibit CYP2D6. Otherwise I get a drunken sedative like effect from it. Not so nice. With a CYP2D6 inhibitor, the effects are cool, lots of euphoria, some stimulation. Its nice that way.

CYP2D6 turns eugenol into hydroxychavicol. See the pick I added. Hydroxychavicol is on the right. This is what you get if you're like me and have a shit load of CYP2D6 in your body. Hydroxychavicol SUCKS BIG TIME! It makes you drunk worse than alcohol does. No euphoria, no stimulation. It just sucks.


Click here to view the attachment

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

Quote    Reply   
avatar

hendrix

superstar

Posts: 646

#5 [url]

Oct 11 08 4:03 PM

Guys, eugenol is a good way to test your CYP2D6 levels. People low in CYP2D6 can't trip from elemicin at all, ever. A lot of people are low in CYP2D6. Some people have no CYP2D6 at all, ever. I am very high in CYP2D6. That's why elemicin works great for me.


So to test, take 4 drops of clove leaf oil, or the minimal dose you need to feel it. Wait 30 minutes. The results are one of the following:

A) You get an unpleasant drunken sedative effect. This means you are abundant in CYP2D6.
 
B) You get a very nice stimulant/euphoriant effect. This means you lack CYP2D6.
 
C) You get a mix of A and B. This means you have a moderate level of CYP2D6.

To trip from elemicin your results must be A only. If your results are B or C, you might be out of luck. CYP2D6 inducers only work for some people. There are people with bodies that are not capable of making CYP2D6 at all.

To trip hard from methyl chavicol (without a CYP2D6 inhibitor) your results should be B. If your results are A or C, you need a CYP2D6 inhibitor to trip from it.


Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

Quote    Reply   

#8 [url]

Oct 12 08 2:41 PM

Interesting... Swim just tried elemi oil last night after using a few drops of the cinnamon bark oil and german chamomile oil... and Swim just passed out hard... sooooo sleepy.  Still trying to get the Sweet Basil to work, just got some parsley seed oil and some dill oil too.  Just for fun Swim tasted a drop of the Dill oil on its own and it was way stronger than a few drops of clove oil in Swim, and that felt pretty strong.The dill really amped up the colors more and made Swim want to hug strangers

Quote    Reply   

#9 [url]

Oct 12 08 2:52 PM

BTW... is there some chart on here somewhere that lists inhibitor oils and whicch ones they go with?  I know I've re-read these threads a bunch of time and as new info keeps coming out and evolving I kinda get lost once in a while.


Quote    Reply   
avatar

maggy

superstar

Posts: 314

#10 [url]

Oct 13 08 4:56 AM

I know what you mean. 69ron is putting together a chart and should be posting it in a day or two. I'll make the thread a sticky thread in the oilahuasca section so the information is easy to find.

Without love life means nothing. Spread a little love day by day and remember "the love you take is equal to the love you make".

Quote    Reply   

#11 [url]

Oct 14 08 8:52 PM

Guys, eugenol is a good way to test your CYP2D6 levels. People low in CYP2D6 can't trip from elemicin at all, ever. A lot of people are low in CYP2D6. Some people have no CYP2D6 at all, ever. I am very high in CYP2D6. That's why elemicin works great for me.

So to test, take 4 drops of clove leaf oil, or the minimal dose you need to feel it. Wait 30 minutes. The results are one of the following:
A) You get an unpleasant drunken sedative effect. This means you are abundant in CYP2D6.
 
B) You get a very nice stimulant/euphoriant effect. This means you lack CYP2D6.
 
C) You get a mix of A and B. This means you have a moderate level of CYP2D6.
To trip from elemicin your results must be A only. If your results are B or C, you might be out of luck. CYP2D6 inducers only work for some people. There are people with bodies that are not capable of making CYP2D6 at all.
To trip hard from methyl chavicol (without a CYP2D6 inhibitor) your results should be B. If your results are A or C, you need a CYP2D6 inhibitor to trip from it.

What induces CYP2d6? ...  Still curious about trying the eleme oil.     And knowing this, should someone without this CYP2d6 be able to get the other oils working?

The clove bud oil seems to also not work as well if used a few days in a row.  Or maybe there was something in the diet that made the clove bud oil work better.  I have been eating quinoa frequently which was also supposed to affect enzymes. 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

69ron

fanatic

Posts: 1,678

#13 [url]

Oct 15 08 10:19 AM

As far as I know, the only allylbenzene that requires CYP2D6 is elemicin. CYP2D6 inhibitors do not seem to inactivate allylbenzenes other than elemicin.

 
If you lack the ability to make CYP2D6, and some people do, you can’t get psychedelic effects from elemicin. It’s impossible. I know for sure that high levels of CYP2D6 are needed for elemicin to have mescaline-like effects. In me, all CYP2D6 inhibitors inactivate elemicin until the inhibition wears off. For example, a dose of 300 mg of piperine causes elemicin to have no effects at all in me until about 3 hours after its CYP2D6 inhibition effects wear off. At that point, elemicin becomes active in me. Without the piperine, elemicin is active within 20 minutes usually in me. With 2 cups of white grapefruit juice, elemicin is inactive for 6-8 hours in me, and becomes active very slowly afterwards, because white grapefruit juice inhibits CYP2D6 for a longer period than piperine does. CYP2D6 inhibition from white grapefruit juice lasts about 2 days.

 
A lot of things inhibit CYP2D6. Many drugs do, some fruit juices do, some common supplements do.

 

Valerian root oil is supposed to induce CYP2D6. I know it goes very well with elemicin, and absolutely makes it more visual for me. Does it really induce CYP2D6? I’m not sure. But it enhances the effects of elemicin for me. I mix it with it often.

 

In me, the effects of eugenol vary depending on the inhibitors I use with it. All forms of it are active in me, and somewhat similar. None are “psychedelic”. On it’s own, I find the effects somewhat unpleasant. Its like being drunk. I get mentally intoxicated. I feel tingling all over, the sort of tingling that I get from the pain relievers at the dentist. These effects are more noticeable if I take it by mouth without a capsule. If I take it in a capsule with German chamomile oil, which is a CYP1A2 inhibitor, the effects of eugenol are less sedating for me. It’s much nicer. If I take it in a capsule with a CYP2D6 inhibitor, like 2 cups of white grapefruit juice, the effects are very nice. It feels like an anti-depressant. Very uplifting, lots of euphoria, etc.

 
Eugenol easily passes through your stomach walls, and avoids digestion if you don’t take it in a capsule. Eugenol is like DMSO in that way. It easily permeates membranes. Like DMSO, eugenol helps drugs soak through your skin.

 
The CYP2D6 enzyme turns eugenol into hydroxychavicol. But this doesn’t happen that easily because a lot of the eugenol just soaks through the walls of the stomach, bypassing CYP2D6 metabolism.

 
Hydroxychavicol is a potent anti-oxidant that helps fight cancer, a potent xanthine oxidase inhibitor, and it also prevents tooth decay by killing the germs that often cause oral cavities.

 
Its interesting how a lot of allylbenzenes that were once thought to cause cancer are now showing promise as cancer fighting agents. I guess when real non-government funded, non-propaganda studies are made about these allylbenzenes, the truth gets out. I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually find out that safrole helps fight cancer too. All of the studies that I know of that showed it to be carcinogenic were government funded studies, and they used several known tricks that can make almost anything appear carcinogenic. Since there’s never been a single case of a human developing cancer from drinking sassafras tea (which is high in safrole), I get the feeling those tests were just government propaganda created to get safrole banned because it’s used to make MDMA.

Quote    Reply   

#14 [url]

Oct 16 08 1:09 AM

69ron, I wouldn't be surprised at all if you're right. Have you read the recent popular article about MDMA being found to kill cancer cells? I'm on my phone right now so I can't really link to it, but I'm sure you can find it easily enough. The doses required for speedy treatment are way beyond the lethal dose, but they've already began searching for analogues with higher anti-cancer to psychoactive effect ratios.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

69ron

fanatic

Posts: 1,678

#15 [url]

Oct 16 08 2:10 AM

Yes, I heard about that on the news today. What a strange coincidence. That really makes you wonder how much propaganda the government puts out to try to steer people away from psychedelics. MDMA (ecstasy) is the amphetamine version of safrole. I'll bet safrole actually fights cancer the same way and is more effective, and all the old tests showing safrole caused cancer were rigged because the government funding the tests at the time did not want people using safrole to manufacture MDMA. And now we find MDMA fights cancer.
 
There's a lot of anti-drug propaganda out there that's created by the US government. It looks authentic, appears on PubChem and the like, but eventually with enough privately funded tests the truth ends up coming out.
 
I remember seeing all the horrible propaganda documentaries the US government created long ago about marijuana usage. Now we know all those old marijuana movies are fake, with no facts whatsoever, but at the time they were made in the 50's, people thought they were real. The US government is pretty bad when it comes to psychedelic drug information. They bend and twist the facts, and because they run the show, their "scientific studies" look authentic, but are often fake. It's pretty sick. But a lot of governments do this kind of thing. They think because they are in power, they can lie to us all and we'll believe it. It's sad, but it's reality.
 
I used to work for the military, so I know they put out false information to the public on a daily basis, on purpose. I forget the term they used for it, they didn't call it propaganda, they had another term for it, but it meant the same thing. The military benefits from this greatly. If the general public even knew about half the things that happen in the military, they would be shocked.
 
It's not surprising when the military spreads false information, because they often have valid reasons for it. But when the department of health and other similar US government branches lie directly to the public, that's seriously wrong.

Quote    Reply   

#16 [url]

Oct 16 08 4:08 AM

I think many people think the dotted lines they sign are just that when actually the dots can be words in micro print...

So how effective is Eugenol at inhibiting MAOA?  Anyone know?


Without prejudice. Everything I write is a work of fiction.

Quote    Reply   

#17 [url]

Oct 17 08 12:42 AM

69ron, you are spot on. Government, media, health departments, military just to name a few have been covering up the benefits of certain drugs for a very long time. Not just that, but they use these drugs for their own MK Ultra programs, which i'm sure you must have heard about being in the military. I read once that LSD is one of the Governments best kept secrets or coverups, as are many so called 'drugs'. Anything that will expand the mind or wake us from the zombified stupour created by the sick world of today, the prescription meds, the tv, electro magnetics, water, gm foods, vaccines etc are given false representation. Anti depressants are handed out like candy, sadly for most they are mis diagnosed, or simply given the wrong kind of meds, which can have a very bad effect on the brain. Dopamine has been seriously overlooked, and sadly those drugs which can help are labelled as bad. Each person is unique so how can they treat us like cattle? A good article worth reading "where have all the flower children gone". What really bugs me is alcohol. Why is this destructive (when abused or used for wrong means) drug legal? Also those red bull drinks? And they make natural plants such as ephedra and pot illegal? And natural remedies? Where is our freedom? I feel so controlled right now!
Anyway, very interesting re clove oil. I too get woosie at dentist. and get sleepy when use it for toothache.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

hendrix

superstar

Posts: 646

#18 [url]

Oct 17 08 1:24 AM

Man, at some point people have to stand up and say enough is enough. The government has no right telling me what plant I can or cannot put into my body. No right at all. We need to amend the constitution to prevent our government from interfering with a human's God given right to ingest any plant they so wish. This is ridiculous.


Flickedbic, we know that eugenol inhibits MAO-A but also MAO-B, but much less.

Here's one study:  http://www.ihop-net.org/UniPub/iHOP/pm/11037357.html?nr=1&pmid=15936201

It says:

"Results from this study show that eugenol inhibits monoamine oxidase A [?] (MAOA) preferentially with a K(i)=26 microM. It also inhibits MAOB but at much higher concentrations (K(i)=211 microM). In both cases, inhibition is competitive with respect to the monoamine substrate."

The test says it's a competitive inhibitor, which means it's reversible, so it's safe and short acting like harmaline.

What is a "K(i)"? How can that be converted to an IC50 value? If I know it's IC50 value I could tell you how potent an MAOI it is compared to harmaline.

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

Quote    Reply   

#19 [url]

Oct 17 08 2:37 PM

So... if you don't mind, could you clear up the differences between MAOI As, and MAOI Bs?  I think the one you are supposed to watch out for what tyramines you ingest before or during the experience and the other is relatively safe.

I remember reading somewhere that clove oil would also work to allow other oils to pass through the skin?  so... does that mean that mixing clove in with the other goodies could make it so people wouldn't have to eat the oils or make capsules?   

Quote    Reply   

#20 [url]

Oct 18 08 8:02 AM

the mk ultra program, sidney gottlieb,and jolly west were all sick,there was also an mk delta program too,the public needs to wake up from the mind control stupor. btw, check out r.h.i.c.- e.d.o.m. radio hypnotic intracebral control electronic disolution of memory

Quote    Reply   
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help