Mexican Allspice and Methyl Eugenol

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Apr 10 08 6:32 AM

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After lurking and getting overly excited about the amazing finds of 69ron and others about methyl chavicol, elemicin, and other compounds, I'm trying to learn all I can about each of the different essential oils we're dealing with to put to practical use. I haven't seen much discussion of methyl eugenol, which according to 69ron modifies an elemicin trip to feel more like DMT.

Searching the internet up and down reveals nothing but a chemical supply company that sells pure methyl eugenol to lure and trap flies in, and mexican allspice. I've only come across one result showing places to buy allspice specifically from mexico (Jamaican allspice doesn't have methyl eugenol as its main constituent). I haven't seen any essential oils from mexican allspice.

Have any of you been able to obtain this oil, or some other source of mostly methyl eugenol? I'm interested in being able to modify the trip in any way I can, and one of the best ways I can think of would be to use methyl eugenol. 69ron, you sound like you've been able to find mexican allspice in some form... Where did you get it?

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#1 [url]

Apr 10 08 5:18 PM

The essential oil of Asarum canadense, aka the relatively common american wild ginger, was found to contain 36.05% methyleugenol by one study with methyleugenol and linalyl acetate being the major constituents. Although the levels of different chemicals can vary widely from region to region, I would think that this could be a promising source of methyleugenol.

It also contained 1.76% elemicin and I have heard of claims that Asarum canadense sometimes contains myristicin and even safrole, so this could become an interesting oil with a little research. Sadly. this oil is also hard to find. I am actually considering distilling my own oil from this plant as I live in an area where it is common.

All hail King Neptune and his water breathers!!!! maayyonaaaze!

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toastus

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#2 [url]

Apr 10 08 5:31 PM

I'm trying to learn distilling as well, to collect these oils from their natural plants so I'll have a sustainable supply of my own. Would separating linalyl acetate and methyleugenol require fractional distillation or simple distillation?

Also I'd think Russian Tarragon is a better source of elemicin, provided you can fractionally distill to separate the other oils from it.

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69ron

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#3 [url]

Apr 10 08 6:33 PM

There are a few places that do sell Mexican allspice herb. I have some I purchased. I cannot find the oil so far. I am still looking for it. I would also like to find a good supplier for Russian tarragon oil. Even the herb is hard to find.

Methyl eugenol is interesting, or at least Mexican allspice is. I’ve haven’t experienced pure methyl eugenol, so I’m making assumptions that the effects of Mexican allspice are those of methyl eugenol. With that in mind, the bodily effects feel like Psilocybe azurescens without being psychedelic. It doesn’t feel like Psilocybe cubensis though. The effect is mild. It seems like at larger doses it will be psychedelic, but increases in dosage never seem to get you there. Maybe with the right enzyme it might, but I have my doubts.

I have read that methyl chavicol gets turned into eugenol and chavibetol by the action of CYP2D6 in the digestive system. Actually, methyl eugenol is first attacked by CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 to form 1-hydroxy-methyl eugenol, and at that point it can’t form eugenol and chavibetol by the action of CYP2D6. But if CYP1A2 or CYP2A6 are inhibited, then it can form eugenol and chavibetol. Eugenol is a pain reliever, while the effects of chavibetol orally in large doses are unknown. In small doses sublingually I believe that chavibetol is a stimulant.

Chavibetol is found in piper betel, which is usually chewed for activity (along with a base which might alter it’s chemistry), which means it’s taken sublingually. The doses used are probably too small for any possible psychedelic effects orally, and since its used without a CYP1A2 or CYP2A6 inhibitor, it would probably not have a good chance of being psychedelic orally even in high doses because it would likely become 1-hydroxy-chavibetol very quickly. But taking it with German chamomile and cinnamon bark oil would prevent that from happening. At that point with those enzymes inhibited, it’s likely to form hydroxylchavicol by the action of CYP2D6. I don’t think hydoxychavicol could be psychedelic. So the best way to get chavibetol into your system is by using CYP1A2, CYP2A6, and CYP2D6 inhibitors. A mix of German chamomile, cinnamon bark oil and white grapefruit juice would allow chavibetol to enter the body orally without becoming 1-hydroxy-chavibetol or hydoxychavicol. This is an experiment worth trying.

I believe with the right enzyme modifiers and admixtures you can increase the potency of elemicin and make it much more psychedelic. Elemicin (or one of its metabolites) is agonistic towards the 5-HT2A receptor in human brains, just like most psychedelics. In order to increase it’s psychedelic effects I believe you need to mix it with other herbs that effect other 5-HT subtypes. LSD is an agonist of a whole bunch of 5-HT sites, not just 5-HT2A. The current theory is that 5-HT2A is the most important for visual effects, but agonizing other 5-HT sites seems to improve the effects of psychedelics.

There probably exists other herbs that agonize 5-HT sites other than 5-HT2A which are not psychedelic on their own, but would greatly potentiate the psychedelic effects of elemicin.

I have heard that ginger is a 5-HT3 antagonist, which is probably not what we want. But this action does block the nausea caused by some psychedelics. Elemicin doesn’t cause nausea though. Taking ginger with bufotenine causes an unpleasant toxic feeling of pressure in the head and reduces the visuals. So be careful mixing ginger with certain psychedelics. I’ve heard it potentiates mescaline, but also heard it doesn’t.

If anyone knows of other herbs that are 5-HT agonists, please post about them. They might be very useful as admixtures.

Also, if anyone knows of a place to get Mexican allspice oil or Russian tarragon oil please PM me!


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toastus

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#4 [url]

Apr 11 08 6:30 AM

I've decided on a specific fractional distillation set to purchase soon. It doesn't cost much, just $255. I think producing your own oil is a worthwhile venture. We're not allowed to post the vendor, are we?

Powerfulmedicine: Thanks for the suggestion of a substitute. :)
While I know that these essential oils are not really carcinogenic, it's just fear the FDA is promoting, I want to be absolutely sure before I just assume something is not carcinogenic. Asarum canadense supposedly has aristolochic acid, which is supposedly nephrotoxic. I've seen all the stuff about safrole and other oils like methyl eugenol, and I know all that is BS. Have you seen any info debating whether or not aristolochic acid is harmful to the kidneys or anything else? I was unable to find any information to the contrary.

Considering that this information was obtained because of over 100 cases of human kidney failure, while the information about safrole was obtained by daily flooding of rats systems with it for extended periods of time, I'm inclined to believe that aristolochic acid is actually bad for you. I'm easily persuaded to the counter-cultural side of things though, because of past experiences :D lol

However I'll probably just take it and distill out the methyl eugenol. It should be good enough.

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#5 [url]

May 9 08 12:21 AM

Ah good, I too was wondering about Eugenol and Methyl Eugenol too. A quick question, even though I will research more about it later...just pressed for time right now, but what differences are there between Eugenol and Methyl Eugenol? Any difference in effects, if bioassay has been done.

Also, look into 2C9. The studies I've seen have found it to be just as important as 1A2. It can be found as a strong inhibitor in Ginkgo biloba.

ElusiveMind

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toastus

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#6 [url]

May 9 08 2:34 AM

Ah good, I too was wondering about Eugenol and Methyl Eugenol too. A quick question, even though I will research more about it later...just pressed for time right now, but what differences are there between Eugenol and Methyl Eugenol? Any difference in effects, if bioassay has been done.
Also, look into 2C9. The studies I've seen have found it to be just as important as 1A2. It can be found as a strong inhibitor in Ginkgo biloba.
ElusiveMind

-elusivemind

Huge differences. Eugenol makes you have a combination feeling of being drunk/high on heroin, while Methyl Eugenol is potentially hallucinogenic. Eugenol is very toxic in higher doses, but Methyl Eugenol isn't (as far as I know). Methyl Eugenol's hallucinogenic activity hasn't been able to be activated fully, probably because the right inhibitors are currently unknown.

A while ago some people tested oils with Ginkgo biloba, and found it to have anti-hallucinogenic activity, so it was dropped as a possibly useful inhibitor. Perhaps new uses will be found for Ginkgo?

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#7 [url]

May 9 08 5:29 AM

Thanks toastus for the quick info.

Found a huge list of possible sources for Methyl Eugenol... maybe someone will find an good oil around their area?? :D

here's the link to the entire page with, what I'd say, pretty good information.... ;)

The Link


Table I - Various References re: Methyl Eugenol content of EO’s.

Essential oil Remarks Methyl eugenol content Reference key (see below)
Acorus calamus Calamus Indian  1.0%   Shiva et al.
Acorus calamus Calamus Mediterranean  0.9% max   BEOA
Acorus calamus (?) Calamus oil  <1.0% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Anasarum canadense Snakeroot oil  36.0- 45.0%   EOS
Aniba rosaedora Rosewood oil   0.11%   TQ
Artemisia dracunculus
Tarragon oil Russian  type
  11.5%                TB
Artemisia dracunculus
Tarragon oil Russian  type
  5 – 29%   EOS
Artemisia dracunculus
Tarragon oil French  type
  0.8%   TB
Artemisia dracunculus
Tarragon oil French  type
  0.1 to 1.5%   EOS
Artemisia

  dracunculus (?)









Estragon oil <1.5% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Canarium indicum Essential oil  300-750 ppm Duke 2
Canarium lucozonium Elemi oil Philipines   0.44%   TQ
Cananga odorata subsp. macrophylla
Cananga oil   0.17% max   BEOA
Cananga odorata subsp. macrophylla (?) Cananga oil   <0.5% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Cananga odorata  subsp. genuina Ylang ylang IInd quality   0.15%   TB
Cananga odorata subsp. genuina
Ylang ylang. No details.   0.154%   TQ
Croton elutaria Cascarilla oil W.I.   0.2% max  BEOA
Croton elutaria (?) Cascarilla oil W.I.   <1.0% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Cinnamomum camphora Camphor oil white, China   Not detected  BEOA
Cinnamomum cassia Cassia bark oil China   0.03% max.  BEOA
Cinnamomum cassia (?) Cassia oil   <0.1% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Cinnamomum tamala Tejpat oil   0.5%   Lawr
Citrus paradisi Grapefruit oil   0.0002%   TQ
Citrus sinensis Sweet? orange oil   0.0004%   TQ
Cymbopogon citratus       geraniol chemotype   to 18.0%   TB
Cymbopogon nardus Sri Lanka   1.8% max.  BEOA
Cympopogon nardus Sri Lanka   3.0%  FEMA
Cymbopogon nardus (?) Citronella oil Sri Lanka  <0.2% IFRA 06.04.04
Cymbopogon winterianus Citronella oil, China (Java type)
  0.2% max.  BEOA
Cymbopogon sp. Citronella oil  <2.0% IFRA website
Cymbopogon winterianus (?) Citronella oil Java  <2.0% IFRA 06.04.04
Dacrydium franklinii          Huon Pine Oil   to 98.0%   TB
Daucus carota Carrot seed oil   0.165%   TQ
Daucus carota Carrot seed oil Chinese   1.23%   Kam
Daucus carota Carrot oil   <0.5% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Daucus carota Carrot oil CO2 extract   0.1%   IFRA
Echinophora tenuifolia                                                  Turkey  17.5 – 50.0%   TB
Elettaria cardamomum     Cardamom oil, India   tr. to 0.1%   TB 
Eucalyptus (globulus?) sp. name not indicated   1.07%   TQ
Hyssop sp. name not indicated   0.55%   TQ
Hyssopus officinalis (?) Hyssop oil <1.0% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Illicium verum Star Anise oil   0.11%   TQ
Laurus nobilis Bay Laurel oil   2.8% max.   BEOA
Laurus nobilis                 Bay Laurel oil   4.0%   TB
Laurus nobilis                 Bay Laurel oil   4.62%   TQ
Levisticum officianale Lovage Leaf   1.3% max.   BEOA
Levisticum officianale (?) Lovage leaf oil  <1.5% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Lippia citriodora               Verbena oil   2.3%   TB
“Magnolia”   
Michaelia or Magnolia spp. ??   2.64%   TQ
Melaleuca alternifolia Tea tree oil   trace    IS
Melaleuca bracteata         (chemotypes II, III, IV)          to >40%   TB
Melaleuca bracteata         (chemotypes I,II,III, IV) trace; 1.5%; 8.7% and 50% respectively   Brophy et al.
Melaleuca   leucadendron    
(chemotype II, methyl eugenol form)  95-97%   TB
Melaleuca   leucadendron    
(chemotype I, Ila and llb)  1.6, 94.6 and   6.7% respectively
  Brophy JJ
Michelia alba Flower and leaf oils  0.38 & 0.22% respectively   Kam.
Myrstica fragrans            Nutmeg Oil Sri Lanka              0.8%   TB
Myrstica fragrans            East Indian Nutmeg oil   tr – 1.2%   EOS
Myrstica fragrans            West Indian Nutmeg oil   0.1- 0.2%   EOS
Myrstica fragrans   (?)         Nutmeg oil  < 1.0% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Myrstica fragrans   (?)         Mace oil  < 0.5% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Myrtus communis Myrtle oil   1.21%   TQ
Myrtus communis Myrtle berry oil   2.3%   Mazza
Ocimum basilicum Sweet basil oil  Often below    0.2%, Comores
 (exotic type) to
 1.6%
 
Ocimum basilicum Oil of Egyptian origin  5.6% max   BEOA
Ocimum spp. Basil oil < 6.0% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Ocimum basilicum Basil Oil  2.6%   FEMA
Ocimum basilicum var. basilicum Described by F & P as Exotic type Basil oil  1.6%   F & P.
Ocimum basilicum var.  “feuilles de laitre”
Described by F & P. as European type Basil oil  2.5 to 7%   F & P.
Ocimum basilicum var.   “grand vert”
Oil  55-65%   F & P.
Ocimum basilicum var.   minimum
Described by F & P. as “Small Basil”  55-65%   F & P.
Ocimum gratissimum   var. thymoliferum
Described by F & P. as “Basil oil thymol type”  1.7%   F & P.
Ocotea pretiosa (Brazilian Sassafras oil- methyl eugenol type)      > 50.0%   TB
Pelargonium   graveolens
Geranium oil China Geranium oil Bourbon
 Not detected in  either oil
 BEOA
Pelargonium   odoratissum
Geranium oil Egypt  Not detected  BEOA
Peumus boldus Leaf 100-125 ppm  Duke
Pimenta dioica Pimento leaf oil      to 2%   TB
Pimenta dioica Pimento leaf oil      2%  FEMA
Pimenta dioica Pimento leaf oil     15.4%   TQ
Pimenta dioica Pimento leaf oil  3.9%  BEOA
Pimenta ­dioica Pimento berry oil  to 8%   TB
Pimenta ­dioica Pimento berry oil 15.0%  BEOA
Pimenta ­dioica (?) Pimento berry oil Pimento leaf oil
< 15.0% <15.0%
IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Pimenta dioica  
Plant part to produce oil not stated 1.2 – 4.4%  
 F & P.
Pimenta racemosa   var. racemosa
Methyl chavicol/methyl eugenol chemotype  48.1%   Aurore et al.
Pimenta racemosa­           Bay leaf oil  4.6%   TQ
Pimenta racemosa­           Bay leaf oil                         0.4 to 12.6%   TB
Pimenta racemosa (?) Bay oil < 4.0% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Pimpinella anisum Anise oil  0.11%   TQ
Piper cubeba Cubeb oil  Not detected   BEOA
Ravensara aromatica Ravensara oil Madagascar  0.10%   F. & P.
Rosa centifolia                 Rose absolute  0.6% to 1.9%   TB
Rosa centifolia                 Rose otto  1.1 to 3.0%   TB
Rosa damascena              Rose otto  1.1 to 3.0%   TB
Rosa damascena              Rose otto Bulgaria  1.6% max   BEOA
Rosa spp. Rose oil Bulgaria “different types” < 2.5% IFRA 06.04.04
Rosa sp. Rose oil China < 3.5% IFRA 06.04.04
Rosa damascena              Rose otto Morocco  0.5% max   BEOA
Rosa sp. Rose oil Morocco <2.6% IFRA 06.04.04
Rosa damascena              Rose otto Turkey  0.5% max   BEOA
Rosa sp. Rose oil Turkey <3.0% IFRA 06.04.04
Rosa sp. Rose oil <3.5% IFRA website
Rosa damascena              Absolute  0.8 to 1.6%   TB
Rosa damascena               Rose otto India  2.0-2.5%   Shiva et al.
Rosa spp. Rose bud oil Georgia <0.1%   TBb
Rosa rugosa Rose otto, China  0.10%   SCIB
Rosmarinus officinalis Rosemary oil  0.011%   TQ
Rosmarinus officinalis Rosemary oil Tunis >0.01%   TBa
Satureia hortensis Summer savoury oil  0.88%   TQ
Satureia montana Winter savoury oil  0.11%   TQ
Satureia montana Winter savoury oil Balkans  0.7%  BEOA
Satureia montana (?) Winter savoury oil <1.0% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Syzygium­ aromaticum       Clove bud oil  to 0.15%   TB
Syzygium­ aromaticum       Clove bud oil  0.2%   Shiva et al.
Syzygium­ aromaticum       Clove leaf oil Indonesia  0.5%   TB
Syzygium­ aromaticum       Clove oil <0.5% IFRA website IFRA 06.04.04
Tagetes minuta Tagete oil  0.03%   Lawr. a
Trachyspermum   ammi
Ajowan oil, India  0.03%   TBb





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69ron

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#8 [url]

May 10 08 7:18 PM

Excellent post!

I know a place that sells Anasarum canadense herb, but not the oil. I’ve been trying to find the oil.

Russian tarragon is also high in elemicin. It would be great to get hold of it. I cannot find it anywhere though.

Dacrydium franklinii, that one looks great. I cannot find it anywhere either.

Melaleuca leucadendron is easy to get. It’s common name is Cajuput oil. I read elsewhere it’s contains mostly eucalyptol and no methyl eugenol. But I guess there’s a chemotype that is mostly methyl eugenol. I haven’t seen that chamotype available though.

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69ron

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#9 [url]

May 10 08 8:14 PM

Ah good, I too was wondering about Eugenol and Methyl Eugenol too. A quick question, even though I will research more about it later...just pressed for time right now, but what differences are there between Eugenol and Methyl Eugenol? Any difference in effects, if bioassay has been done.
Also, look into 2C9. The studies I've seen have found it to be just as important as 1A2. It can be found as a strong inhibitor in Ginkgo biloba.
ElusiveMind

-elusivemind

Ginkgo biloba has proven to be a bad choice when it comes to visual psychedelics in general. A lot of people have said it greatly diminishes visual effects. I’ve seen this said for bufotenine (SWIM verified this himself), DMT, and quite a few other psychedelics. It has vasodilating effects in the wrong part of the body, similar to theobromine, which is also know to reduce visuals, at least in some people. For me, chocolate greatly diminishes elemicin’s visuals if I have enough to feel the effects of the theobromine. Others have also noticed this with other psychedelics. But paradoxically, some people get potentiation from theobromine, especially when used in ayahuasca.

I think Ginkgo is probably better with ayahuasca than with other psychedelics. I think the hamala alkaloids in ayahuasca potentiate psychedelics enough that Ginkgo cannot diminish their effects.

For me, Ginkgo completely overpowers elemicin, making it not the slightest bit psychedelic. Large doses of chocolate also seem to do this.

Yesterday I took several doses of phenethylamine (a legal stimulant), and then later several doses of phenylalanine (a legal amino acid which can be made into phenethylamine in humans) to compare the two. And then I took elemicin with phenylalanine, expecting potentiation. It pretty much made the elemicin inactive.

I’m not sure why chocolate, Ginkgo, and phenylalanine (or possibly phenethylamine) are detrimental to the effects of elemicin. White grapefruit juice and black pepper are also. What these do to inhibit the psychedelic effects of elemicin is unknown. With white grapefruit and black pepper, I believe it’s their CYP2D6 inhibition that weakens and prolongs the effects of elemicin. But why the others inactivate elemicin is probably somehow related to their effects on blood vessels.

Caffeine potentiates elemicin, mescaline, and phenethylamine and can help get rid of headaches. LSA/LSH/LSD can also help get rid of headaches. Theobromine can cause headaches in me. Ginkgo, like theobromine and phenylalanine can also cause headaches. This relates to their effects on blood vessels. I think this effect is anti-hallucinogenic.

Like you said, CYP2C9 is probably a good enzyme to inhibit, but a better inhibitor needs to be found, one that’s more psychedelic friendly. For myristicin and safrole, but not elemicin and methyl chavicol, CYP2D6 is also probably good to inhibit, if you want a more MDMA like effect rather than a MDA like effect. MDA is more visual than MDMA. MDA is created from MDMA by CYP2D6.

Quercetin is a potent CYP2C9 inhibitor which also inhibits CYP3A4, CYP1A2, and CYP2A6. It’s also a mild MAO-A inhibitor and very mild MAO-B inhibitor. This is available OTC at some sports nutrition centers. I have this and I’m planning to give it a few tests with elemicin. It’s effect’s of CYP2D6 are not well documented. I have read that quercetin totally ruins the effects of codeine, so it may strongly inhibit CYP2D6. I believe anything that messes up the effects of codeine will be detrimental to elemicin as well. We’ll see.

Turmeric is also a potent CYP2C9 inhibitor which also inhibits CYP3A4, CYP1A2, and CYP1A1, but is said to induce CYP2A6. This doesn’t seem to go well with elemicin, but I haven’t tested it enough to be sure.

Apigenin is a potent CYP2C9 inhibitor that’s found in German chamomile but not in the oil. This is available OTC in pure form. I have noticed that the flowers are a little better than the oil, but not much. The fact that you need to take 5-10 grams of flowers as apposed to 3-8 drops of the oil, makes the oil so much better in my opinion.

5-hydroxyeugenol is also a potent CYP2C9 inhibitor.

White grapefruit and black pepper are also potent CYP2C9 inhibitors, but they also inhibit CYP2D6, and they are horrible with elemicin, but apparently good for myristicin and safrole.

Eugenol inhibits CYP2C9 pretty strongly. This is good with elemicin, as long as the dose is low. If the dose is too high it interferes with the euphoria of elemicin and introduces a cloudy drifty drunken feeling.

Methyl eugenol seems to go well with elemcin however, making the experience feel more like DMT. This needs more testing to be sure of it though. Mexican allspice is very high in methyl eugenol, and very low in eugenol. I have this at home. It’s effects are nothing like those of eugenol. However CYP2D6 should be able to O-demethylate methyl eugenol into both eugenol and chavibetol. Perhaps inhibiting CYP2D6 will be beneficial for methyl eugenol?

3,4-Dimethoxyamphetamine is the amphetamine version of methyl eugenol. It’s psychedelic. See here:

http://isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/read.php?domain=pk&id=55

3,4-Dimethoxyphenethylamine is the phenethylamine version of methyl eugenol. It’s probably only active with an MAO inhibitor. See here:

http://isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/read.php?domain=pk&id=60

It’s my belief that the n,n-dimethyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine version of methyl eugenol would be the “active” metabolite, if it’s active. I don’t think these oils form phenethylamines or amphetamines, but rather they form n,n-dimethylphenethylamines.

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#10 [url]

May 11 08 1:30 AM

Thanks 69Ron for clearing up the information with Ginkgo and very interesting read with the chocolate, phenethylamine, Ginkgo comparisons on elemicin.

Interesting little bit with the LSA/LSH/LSD combinations with the various substances. For SWIM, quite the opposite happens, as coffee (while increasing the effect) give SWIM some very annoying headaches while larger amounts of chocolate ease the vasoconstriction on the legs but doesn't extinguish the trip though.....

Very interesting notes with the 2C9 inhibitors and other inhibitors, will have to look into it more!

Many thanks,
ElusiveMind

EDIT:

As for the chemotype of Cajuputi, is seems chemotype 2 is what you are looking for, which from this information can contain up to 95% Methyl Eugenol....

The Link

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maggy

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#11 [url]

May 11 08 2:22 AM

That's interesting that what gives one person a headache releaves it for another.

More proof that we are all such unique creations.smile

Without love life means nothing. Spread a little love day by day and remember "the love you take is equal to the love you make".

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69ron

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#12 [url]

May 11 08 8:11 AM


It’s strange how different compounds affect people differently.

I’m unfortunately very prone to getting all kinds of headaches, and can get them from coffee, but coffee can also help stop them, it all depends on the type of headache it is. About 8 teaspoons of Hershey’s chocolate syrup is guaranteed to give me a headache.

1 cup of coffee never gives me a headache no matter how strong it is unless I drink it over and over all day. About 12% of caffeine is metabolized into theobromine after ingestion. I think it’s the buildup of theobromine in my system that causes me to get a headache if I drink coffee all day long.

Ginkgo always gives me a headache if I take 2-3 times the normal dose.

Yohimbe never does.

Pseudo-ephedrine gives me a headache easily.

Of these, for me, Ginkgo and chocolate are anti-psychedelic, the rest potentiate psychedelics like elemicin, methyl chavicol, etc.

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#13 [url]

Sep 25 08 1:25 AM

Huge differences. Eugenol makes you have a combination feeling of being drunk/high on heroin, while Methyl Eugenol is potentially hallucinogenic. Eugenol is very toxic in higher doses, but Methyl Eugenol isn't (as far as I know). Methyl Eugenol's hallucinogenic activity hasn't been able to be activated fully, probably because the right inhibitors are currently unknown.A while ago some people tested oils with Ginkgo biloba, and found it to have anti-hallucinogenic activity, so it was dropped as a possibly useful inhibitor. Perhaps new uses will be found for Ginkgo?

-toastus


have you tried Eugenol? could you give a rough trip summary? 
__
danjul

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#14 [url]

Mar 16 09 8:53 AM

hi 69ron,
you can't get russian tarragon oil.
i stumbled upon the same conclusions as you.

you can, however, buy the seeds very cheap, like $10 for 1000 seeds.

tarragon yields 2000kg per 10,000m2, meaning 200g of leaf per m2.
That's plenty of trips.
The max they put in russian Tarkhun drinks is 1.6g of leaf per drink.
So we can safely say that we probably need more, around 16 grams minimum to do something.

i would never bother distilling it at home, you would lose 30% of the oil, just preserve it dried. It would last a year until next season.

In a 10m2 backyard or greenhouse you could yearly harvest 2000g of leaf. In a greenhouse if you did 2 crops per year 4000g. It is a pretty hardy plant though.


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69ron

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Mar 26 09 8:59 AM

Methyl eugenol is psychedelic, similar to elemicin, but softer and more mescaline-ish, but many times weaker. At least in me it's much weaker.

I have yet to try it transdermally though. I have a small amount of methyl eugenol left and some aniseed oil. I plan to test this out in the near future.

What I find very interesting about methyl eugenol is that it greatly adds dimension to elemicin's effects when taken near the peak effects of the elemicin. The visuals become amazingly similar to mescaline with this mix if you time it that way. If you take the methyl eugenol with the elemicin, you don’t get a similar boost. If you take it before the elemicin, it weakens the elemicin (tolerance probably).

3-(dimethylamino)-1-(4-hydroxy-3-methoxyphenyl)propan-1-one is the dimethyhlamine form of methyl eugenol. This is probably inactive. My tests seem to show that only the piperidine form is active.

1-(3,4-dimethoxyphenyl)-3-piperidin-1-ylpropan-1-one is the piperidine form.

Another interesting thing about methyl eugenol is that it’s phenethylamine form known as 3,4-Dimethoxyphenethylamine is inactive. However it’s amphetamine form know as 3,4-dimethoxyamphetamine is said to be similar to mescaline.

The methyl eugenol analogs seem to vary a lot in their possible activity. None of them are potent however. It appears that the human body can easily destroy alkaloids of this type. My gut feeling is that SSAO is a serious road block for these methyl eugenol based alkaloids.


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