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enzymatic manipulation of metabolites of constituents of cannabis

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Jan 21 11 3:22 PM

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this is an avenue of exploration i might have posted one time on this forum long ago i have a lot of information about it if you give me a few weeks i will post it all i just have a lot of other things to tend to.

the idea is basically that we can use our extensive knowledge of enzymes and inhibition and induction to modify what metabolites of the cannabis chemicals we experience especially when taken orally.

yes this means we could potentially find out that this or that specific metabolite has this or that set of actions in the body and that some alcohol and or aldehyde metabolites might be possible of witch we could easily use to cycle them for extended functionality if not simply to avoid wasting sacrement.

from wikipedia:

"THC is metabolized mainly to 11-OH-THC by the body. This metabolite is still psychoactive and is further oxidized to 11-nor-9-carboxy-THC (THC-COOH). In humans and animals, more than 100 metabolites could be identified, but 11-OH-THC and THC-COOH are the dominating metabolites. Metabolism occurs mainly in the liver by cytochrome P450 enzymes CYP2C9, CYP2C19, and CYP3A4.[85] More than 55% of THC is excreted in the feces and ~20% in the urine. The main metabolite in urine is the ester of glucuronic acid and THC-COOH and free THC-COOH. In the feces, mainly 11-OH-THC was detected.[86]

Detection in body fluids

THC, 11-OH-THC and THC-COOH can be detected and quantitated in blood, urine, hair, oral fluid or sweat using a combination of immunoassay and chromatographic techniques as part of a drug use testing program or in a forensic investigation of a traffic or other criminal offense or suspicious death"  

i remember hearing mentions possible of CYP1A2, CYP2D6, and possibly 1-2 more of the enzymes we are familiar with here as being a part of the metabolism of cannabinoids.

wiki already gives us CYP2C9, CYP2C19, CYP3A4 so i would suggest somebody look up the pages on herb wiki for those enzymes and take 2-3 strong inhibitors for each enzyme (preferably verified in man in vivo) 15 and or 30 minutes prior to cannabis ingestion, this may work better with only oral or oral and inhalation combined rather than inhalation alone.

after experiencing that i would suggest taking every inhibitor you have for 1 of those enzymes wile you take inducers for the other 2 enzymes again 15 and or 30 minutes prior to consumption and see how it compares to all 3 inhibited strongly.

i am interested in what each experience is like, especially when you induce ALL the enzymes responsible for metabolism starting with those 3 and see how it differs from the usual cannabis experience.

from my memory of having done this unintentionally by taking oils simply for the effects of the oils before smoking cannabis i can say these oils and inhibitors/inducers will have a profound impact on the outcome of your experience of cannabis.

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#2 [url]

Jan 27 11 11:03 AM

Okay, I'm interested in tolerance building/destroying approach to enzymes. Can anyone point me in the right direction with what chemicals specifically stop tolerance build-up? If we are considering sparing "sacrement" I want to be able to potentiate the experience after I cease all tolerance factors with a little bit a typical dirt (cannabis). I have the sizes for my next experiment down to similar micron size to ensure exact dosages every trial. Weighed and measured out, vaporized at lower temperatures to partially activate them then cook them in the same oils they were once already dragged through at lower temperatures for longer periods of time attempting to be very precise as possible. I'll report more when I get there.

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#3 [url]

Feb 22 11 6:51 AM

The only problem with using herbs to inhibit the metabolism of cannabinoids is that many of these herbs have their own psychoactive effects. It will be difficult to say whether an herb is potentiating the Cannabis due to enzyme manipulation or because of synergy.

Many herbs have strong synergy with Cannabis. And many of these herbs are psychoactive on there own. For instance, syrian rue is considered to have strong synergy with Cannabis. Harmala alkaloids in this herb are metabolized by a wide range of Cytochrome P450 enzymes, including CYP1A2, CYP2D6, and CYP3A4. This would definitely help to explain the synergy, but there is probably a major pharmacological component to the potentiation.

Another example, but not an herbal one, is DXM, which has very strong synergy with Cannabis. DXM is metabolized by CYP3A4 and CYP2D6, so this will potentiate Cannabis by enzyme manipulation. But there is definitely a pharmacological aspect to this as well.

If this is all just a question of conserving the "sacrament", then almost any psychoactive herb combined with Cannabis will potentiate it. I understand the draw, though, of deeper exploration of these combinations. Unfortunately, I don't use Cannabis often and when I do it's usually to enhance the effects of other more powerful psychoactive substances. So I won't be of much help in this endeavor.

But from my experience here are the herbs and drugs that potentiate Cannabis at doses that are only mildly psychoactive: alcohol, Datura, Syrian Rue, PEA, Salvia, and wild lettuce.

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#4 [url]

Dec 5 11 9:02 PM

Good points powerfulmedicine!

HEY everybody, i think this is my first post, though i've learned a lot from here, i only post if i think i can be helpful.
So, i recently read that Kanna is well known to increase the effects of cannabis, planning to eventually experiment.
Kanna is an SSRI, so researchers should avoid a mix with MAOI's. Unless they know exactly what they are doing.
Also, i have heard Mango is suppose to increase effects. They are tasty, so at least it will have munchies benefits.

THANKS for all the inspiration!

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