Using L-Argnine to Help Activate Elemicin

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Mar 3 10 9:31 PM

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L-arginine activates elemicin EVERY TIME when done correctly.  This needs to be tested by everyone who hasnt gotten Elemi Oil to work.

-visionquest

(This post below was originally posted in another thread, but I think it needs to be focused on in its own thread here.)

Excess dietary L-Argnine produces pyrrolidine in humans. Pyrrolidine is mostly made from L-arginine by bacteria in the colon (large intestines), long after excess passes through the small intestines. I have heard that L-argnine can take anywhere from 3 or more hours to reach the large intestines. It depends greatly on what other foods are taken with it.

For this reason, supplementing with L-arginine will not produce immediate results. Simply taking L-arginine directly with allylbenenes is not going to work well. You need to predose with L-arginine.

The synchronicity on this forum never ceases to amaze me!

I've been testing pyrrolidines with a focus on L-arginine for the past couple of days, and I can attest that having a surplus of pyrrolidine in my body makes ELEMICIN WORK EVERY TIME, even on consecutive days!

-visionquest


That's very impressive. I will have to get some myself to test with, probably today. My local pharmacy has it. Most places that sell amino acids have it.

I hadn't read the Oilhausca Activation page on Herbpedia in awhile, and the other day I scanned through all the updates and noticed the 69ron had added a statement about L-arginine forming pyrrolidine in vivo, specifically in the small intestine.  A lightbulb went off in my head and I started to connect all of the dots of elements that had preceded successful activation in the past.  For instance, eating eggs 2-3 hours prior, even though a good source of Lysine and Choline, would also supplement about 800 mg of L-arginine and convert to pyrrolidine in the gut.  Also the curious success after working out at the gym was not due to the body's increased methylation, but rather, the Arginine content of the pre-workout drink that I had ingested.  I considered the possibility of this in the past and tried taking 500mg of L-arginine in pill form along with the oils, and after having no success, shelved the idea.  I was failing to realize that, like Lysine, Arginine needs to be taken far enough in advance to be digested by the small intestine.  It was all starting to make sense.  I also recalled having greater success on days that I ate large amounts of hummus (love the stuff).

 
To test this theory, I started eating foods high in L-arginine for every meal, specifically 2-3 hours prior to use of elemicin.  The easiest way is to cook with tahini (sesame seed paste).  It slips easily into oatmeal, soups, smoothies, and even PB&J sandwiches.  The first day, 2 drops of calamus, 2 drops of anise seed, and 10 drops of elemi transdermally resulted in euphoria, stimulation, cev, and lucid dreaming!  The onset was 20 minutes and peaked around 1-2 hours, lasting about 6 hours.  At this point I thought that it could still be a fluke, so yesterday (the very next day) I tried the same test, but with a more complicated set of inhibitors similar to what Hendrix has recently described.  Exact same result, slightly less intense, reminiscent of MDMA and much more prolonged.  In fact, I'm still feeling the electric stimulation 14 hours in.  The effects would wax and wane, are enhanced by music and coffee, and for some reason seem enhanced by continual eating of L-arginine rich foods (shellfish, sesame, almonds, soy protein, garbanzo, eggs).  It doesnt make sense from my current understanding of allybenzene theory.  Additional pyrrolidine introduced after the alkaloids have already formed shouldnt have any effect.  Another pyrrolidine supplementation method that I would like to try is carrot greens.  According to wikipedia, they contain pyrrolidine, and if its true, then are the only known food source.  That would allow someone to ingest the supplementation at the same time as the oils and still see a benefit.


I encourage folks who've had trouble with elemicin to try this method.  For me, L-arginine was the missing piece of the puzzle.  Also, Im not sure I agree with twister's warning about L-arginine supplementation having negative consequences.  Food sources are extremely safe and can supply upwards of 45 grams per serving!  The only side effect that I've observed is an increased libido and the readiness of my soldier to enter battle.

-visionquest



Ok. After reading that part about the food sources being used instead of pure L-arginine, my enthusiasm went down a bit. Are you sure it's the L-arginine and not something else present in these L-arginine containing foods?

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Mar 3 10 10:09 PM






That's very impressive. I will have to get some myself to test with, probably today. My local pharmacy has it. Most places that sell amino acids have it.

-69ron




I dont necessarily claim that non-dietary sources would produce different results.  Initially, I had been successfully activating elemicin and had no idea why or how, but that it always followed my workouts at the gym.  The only x-factor was the preworkout drink that I was using regularly at the time, which contained an undisclosed amount of Arginine alpha-ketoglutarate (AAKG), a supplement marketed to bodybuilders as a vasodilator.  None of the other ingredients, when tested independently, had proved useful, except for caffeine and DMAA, which would have been almost entirely metabolized at the 2-3 hour mark.  Even after all this, my initial tests with L-arginine pills was a complete miss, considering I was only taking 500mg and at the same time as the oils.


Ok. After reading that part about the food sources being used instead of pure L-arginine, my enthusiasm went down a bit. Are you sure it's the L-arginine and not something else present in these L-arginine containing foods?

-69ron




My primary source of supplementation has been with tahini.  Maybe after looking at tahini (sesame seed) and its composition, we can pinpoint exactly what the mechanism is.

100 grams of sesame contains: 3.250 grams of arginine, 4.600 grams of glutamic acid, 2.070 grams of aspartic acid and 1.500 grams of leucine.  Every other amino acid is around 1000mg or less, and lysine is only 650mg.

Sesame seeds contain high level of natural antioxidants (sesamin, sesamolin, and sesamol) and lignans pinoresinol and lariciresinol, which are powerful phytochemicals.

They are also a significant source of magnesium, phosphorous (including phytic acid), and zinc.  

Pulverization, as in tahini, is the best method of gleaning the nutritional benefits of sesame.



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twister

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#2 [url]

Mar 3 10 10:49 PM

Even after all this, my initial tests with L-arginine pills was a complete miss, considering I was only taking 500mg and at the same time as the oils.

-visionquest



That would go against the proper way to use L-arginine. It's going to take several hours for it to start producing pyrrolidine. Also, it only produces pyrrolidine if you take an excess. If that entire dose was mostly used by your body, then only a tiny bit will turn into pyrrolidine.

I think that taking the L-arginine alone as a predose pill is also not going to work well. You would need other food present to feed the bacteria that processes the L-arginine into pyrrolidine, I would think.

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maggy

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Mar 4 10 12:32 AM


On the lower right hand side of our forum there are two links:

Dr. Duke's Phytochemical Database

Nutrient Search

These searchable databases are fabulous.

Data from Nutrient Search shows that sesame seed flour has very high L-arginine contents (the highest on their list):

Seeds, sesame flour, low-fat
Arginine: 7435mg/100 g


A few other miscellaneous items from their results: 

Nuts, walnuts, black, dried
Arginine: 3618mg/100 g


Peanuts, all types, oil-roasted, with salt
Arginine: 3247mg/100 g

Peanut butter, smooth style, with salt
Arginine: 2719mg

Without love life means nothing. Spread a little love day by day and remember "the love you take is equal to the love you make".

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maggy

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Mar 4 10 12:45 AM

The same site shows 100 grams of eggs have the following choline, lysine, and arginine contents:


Egg, whole, dried
Lysine: 3402mg  Arginine: 2841mg  Choline: 1007mg 

Egg, yolk, dried
Lysine: 2718mg  Arginine: 2444mg  Choline: 1388mg 

Egg, white, dried, powder, glucose reduced
Lysine: 5076mg  Arginine: 4813mg  Choline: 8mg

All parts are highest in L-lysine compared to the others. Egg white are very low in choline. Someone wanting high L-lysine and L-arginine contents who also wants to avoid choline should use the egg white only. You can buy egg whites at most grocery stores.

Without love life means nothing. Spread a little love day by day and remember "the love you take is equal to the love you make".

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sativa

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Mar 15 10 6:45 PM


Pyrrolidine, Tropane, Piperidine and Polyketide Alkaloids



Pyrrolidine alkaloids

About 80 pyrrolidine alkaloids are known. They have 5-membered N-containing rings.
Pyrrolidine alkaloids are derived from ornithine (or arginine in some cases) and lysine with addition of acetate/malonate units. The first steps in the biosynthesis usually are decarboxylation, then oxidation of the resulting amines with diamine oxidases to produce amine-aldehydes that cyclize to form pyrrolidine rings.
Simple pyrrolidine or pyrrolideine units often condense with other compounds to yield additional series of alkaloids. For example, N-pyrrolidine reacts with a derivative of nicotinic acid to form nicotine.
Malonyl-CoA units condense with N-pyrrolideine units to form alkaloids such as hygrine and cuscohygrine.
Putrescine usually from arginine or from ornithine in plants.
The biosynthesis of pyrrolidine alkaloids may involve symmetrical or asymmetrical incorporation of putrescine derived from ornithine or arginine. This usually involves methylation of one of the nitrogens of the putrescine. Incorporation is via a symmetrical intermediate in Nicotiana but via an unsymetrical intermediate in Erythroxylum coca.
Pyrrolidine alkaloids are found in a number of families, but are best known from the Solanaceae, Convolvulaceae, and Erythroxylaceae.

Tropane alkaloids

In some families, the malonyl-CoA units that form compounds such as hygrine, condense internally to form a bridged structure. These alkaloids, called tropane alkaloids, are best known from the Solanaceae, Convolvulaceae, and Erythroxylaceae, but have been reported from other families. They are known from the Rhizophoraceae.
Differences in labelling patterns have been observed and the stereochemical fate of the original putrescine precursor differs in different plants.
An unsymmetrical putrescine intermediate is incorporated into cocaine in Erythroxylum coca.
Tropinone is a key intermediate in the biosynthesis of many tropane alkaloids in the Solanaceae. Many tropane alkaloids in the Solanaceae occur as esters, especially as tropic acid esters. This somewhat unusual acid is derived from phenylalanine.
Atropine is a mixture of (R and S-hyoscyamine.
Cocaine binds and inhibits the dopamine uptake carrier. This alkaloid currently is a drug of abuse in many countries. It also has been used medicinally as a local anesthetic.
Tropane alkaloid-containing plants have been used medicinally and have folkloric uses in many parts of the world. Among these are Atropa belladonna, Atropa belladonna, Mandragora officinalis, Hyoscyamus spp., Duboisia spp., Brugmansia spp. and Brunfelsia spp. Several tropane alkaloids are hallucinogenic and some are powerful anticholinergic drugs.

Piperidine alkaloids

At least 700 alkaloids of this structural type are known. They arise from lysine in much the same manner as pyrrolidine alkaloids are derived from ornithine and arginine. Cadaverine, the diamine derived from decarboxylation of lysine is usually incorporated as a non-symmetrical intermediate. Anatabine and anabasine in tobacco are derived in a manner that parallels the origin of nicotine. On the other hand, ammodendrine in members of the Fabaceae is derived wholly from lysine.

Piperine from Piper nigrum

The pungent compounds in black pepper are piperidine units that have interacted with phenylpropanoid compounds. The best known of these is piperine.


Piperidine alkaloids with portions derived from malonyl-CoA and phenylalanine

A series of alkaloids similar to pyrrolidine alkaloids arise from combination of malonyl-CoA units with piperideine moieties, to form alkaloids similar to hygrine and cuscohygrine. Best known of these is pseudopelletierine (similar to hygrine, but with a piperidine unit in the molecule). In Lycopodium species, these units are dimerized and converted into a complex series of alkaloids.
Alkaloids in Sedum (Crassulaceae) and Lobelia (Campanulaceae) involve addition of units from phenylalanine. Lobeline, from Lobelia inflata, Indian tobacco, has been used as a component of antismoking preparations. Cattle are sometimes poisoned by eating other species of this genus.

Pipecolic acid

Pipecolic acid and a series of alkaloid derivatives appear to be derived from L-lysine, via the intermediacy of D-lysine.

Coniine and related alkaloids

Alkaloids in the family Apiaceae are uncommon. Coniine, from Conium maculatum, is one of the few encountered. This alkaloid is similar in structure to piperidine alkaloids, but is derived from polyketide pathways. Coniine does, however, occur in several other plants. This alkaloid is highly toxic. Some of these alkaloids also occur in members of the Fabaceae, notably Cassia and Prosopis, and in conifers.

-http://www.life.illinois.edu/ib/425/lecture29.html

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