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What Herbs Are High In γ-Asarone?

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Feb 17 10 8:12 PM

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What herbs are high in γ-Asarone? Can you buy it pure anywhere? This looks like it could be a cool allyl to mess around with.

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hendrix

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#1 [url]

Feb 18 10 4:59 AM

Look here: http://herbpedia.wikidot.com/gamma-asarone

That's the Wiki for our forum. This is data from that page:

PlantPartContents of Essential Oil
Acorus calamusRoot0-3.20%
Aniba hostmannianaTrunk wood98.6%
Aniba hostmannianaBark94.5%
Caesulia axillaries0-48%
Crowea angustifolia var. angustifolia68%

Aniba hostmanniana and Crowea angustifolia var. angustifolia are what you want. Good luck finding them.

If anyone knows of any other sources please post here and we can update our wiki with new data.

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

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hendrix

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#3 [url]

Feb 19 10 11:42 PM

You can update our wiki if you request edit access from either Maggy or 69ron. They will give you a password you need to edit the wiki. I already have edit access.

The wiki is really the best place for this information. It makes it easy to find the information. This forum has thousands of posts. Its sometimes really hard to find information here.

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

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twister

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#4 [url]

Mar 26 10 8:37 PM

Check out our wiki on gamma-asarone. It's here: http://herbpedia.wikidot.com/gamma-asarone

This is from that page:

PlantOriginPartContents of Essential Oil
Acorus calamus?Root0-3.20%
Acorus calamus (European triploid)Finland, Czech, SloveniaRoot12.52-25.45% [7]
Acorus tatarinowii?Root4.51% [6][5]
Aniba hostmanniana?Trunk wood98.6% [1]
Aniba hostmanniana?Bark94.5% [1]
Asiasarum sieboldi?RootUnspecified [4]
Caesulia axillaries??0-48% [2]
Crowea angustifolia var. angustifolia??68% [3]

If you can get the European triplod oil from Finland, Czech or Slovenia, that at least has 12% gamma-asarone. According to data on that page gamma-asarone has a melting point of 25 C. Maybe you can freeze out the gamma-asarone?

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69ron

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#5 [url]

Mar 26 10 10:53 PM


I updated that page just a second ago. I put a note on the melting point and boiling point information for gamma-asarone and beta-asarone stating that the source data is potentially wrong.

The melting point data for beta-asarone is most likely wrong, despite it being all over the internet. Sources stating a melting point for it are probably unknowingly listing the melting point for alpha-asarone. Beta-asarone doesn't form crystals at room temperature or in the freezer. It's a liquid at room temperature. So the melting point data must be wrong. Alpha-asarone forms crystals at room temperature. A lot of sources for this data have unfortunately mixed up data between alpha-asarone, beta-asarone, and gamma-asarone. It is a complete mess. 

The melting point data for gamma-asarone is from 1 source and I've found information in that source to be incorrect for other compounds. I cannot verify their gamma-asarone data anywhere else. It could very well be wrong. I have an idea that gamma-asarone doesn't form crystals and the melting point data for it is wrong. Many allybenzenes do not crystallize even in the freezer. For example anethole can crystallize easily in the refrigerator, but the allylbenzene version of it, methyl chavicol, does not.

I have tried freezing oil from Nepal and oil from India. Neither one produces any crystals.

Alpha-asarone will produce crystals if you isolate it. But it will not crystallize out of the essential oil of calamus when put in the freezer, unless it's the main compound in the oil. I believe that beta-asarone cannot crystallize and that alpha-asarone is probably highly soluble in beta-asarone, so a good amount of beta-asarone will prevent the alpha-asarone from crystallizing even in the freezer. Gamma-asarone is probably also soluble in beta-asarone.

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#6 [url]

Mar 26 10 11:10 PM

http://www.agriculturejournals.cz/publicFiles/00118.pdf
You can find whole reference [7] here but you must log into google account or your printer will go into printing frenzy or something. Finnish calamus got mainly solavetivone 7,8-15,6%, and beta-asarone 9,0-11,5%. Czech calamus got mainly gamma-asarone 12,52-25,35%, and beta-asarone 11,34-21,30%.
Also my oil smells woody, it's bitter but not pungent. Smells somewhat similar like tea tree oil but it's a different tone, that's probably from solavetivone. I don't know the details of it's properties yet though.

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69ron

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#7 [url]

Mar 27 10 12:24 AM

I believe I misquoted reference 7. I updated the wiki to remove Finland and Slovenia from that section, and just put Czech as the source of the European triploid oil containing gamma-asarone. I reread the reference and it doesn't really make it clear that oils from Finland and Slovenia contain gamma-asarone. So unless someone can verify that they also contain gamma-asarone, I will leave them out of the wiki.

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hendrix

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#8 [url]

Mar 28 10 8:26 PM

It's a big surprise that no one has tested gamma-asarone. On other forums people have tested isolated alpha-asarone. No one found it to be psychedelic at all. This is not a surprise. It's a propenylbenzene. All of the propenylbenzenes I tried have no psychedelic effects. Beta-asarone is probably also not psychedelic. I don't know anyone who's tried pure beta-asarone. A lot of oil high in beta-asarone, like the oil from India that I have, is mostly nauseating and sedative. Very high doses of beta-asarone might produce some gamma-asarone as a metabolite leading to some minor psychedelic action in some people. Propenylbenzenes can do this. But it takes a lot.

Has anyone seen Czech calamus oil avilable for purchase anywhere?

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

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#9 [url]

Mar 28 10 10:41 PM

I think my oil doesn't have any asarones and is a lower boiling fraction. My oil is a bit sedative but it isn't nauseating even at 10 drops. But if it contains gamma-asarone then how to activate it? Taste of my oil reminds me of nutmeg oil, it's bitter but bearable. My oil have only written  "(INCI: Acorus Calamus Oil) contains: coumarin". What is the smell of coumarine? Because my oil doesn't remind me of new-mown hay, and is different from normal calamus smell, but reminds it. It has also yellow-green color.

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69ron

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#10 [url]

Mar 29 10 12:17 AM


INCI means The International Nomenclature of Cosmetic Ingredients. Acorus Calamus Oil is an INCI standard name. That's all that means.

I don't know the smell of coumarin.
I looked at a lot of different calamus GC data from different parts of the world. They very SO WIDELY. Some are mostly methyl eugenol. Some are very high in elemicin. Some are a bit high in gamma-asarone, etc. Some have none of these. They are so different from each other.

All the calamus I have from Nepal is amber in color. The oil from India is yellow. If I were to compare either with nutmeg, the oil from Nepal would be closer to nutmeg. But both are still very different from nutmeg.

India produces more than 1 kind of calamus oil. Not all are free of gamma-asarone apparently.

Activation of gamma-asarone should be the same as that for methyl chavicol, elemicin and methyl eugenol (but not things like safrole, dillapiole, apiole, or myristicin).

The most important things to help activate gamma-asarone should be (in bold):

potently inhibit CYP2D6 (7 grams of black pepper as filtered tea works) 
inhibit UGT (valerian root oil, licorice root)
inhibit Glutathione S-transferase (Ellagic acid)
* inhibit SULT (EGCG, ECG)


induce 17bHSD2 (Gallic acid, Palm oil carotenoids, Retinoic acid, Vitamin D3)
* induce CYP2C9, or other similar P450 enzymes that can 1'-hydroxylate (vitmain B9 does this)

CYP2D6 is a major problem in the P450 realm when it comes to methoxy groups. We can't have methoxy groups metabolized into hydroxy groups on the benzene ring. Elemicin, methyl eugenol, methyl chavicol, and gamma-asarone will have no psychedelic action if they are O-demethylated. It doesn't matter if you inhibit the other enzymes if this happens. It's impossible for the O-demethylated allylbenzenes to be psychedelic. So if you don't have things to inhibit the other enzymes at least potently inhibit CYP2D6. This is the single most important step. Everything else depends on there being no hydroxy groups on the benzene ring.

Something in my oil from Nepal inhibits CYP2D6 very strongly, but I don't know what it is. My oil from India is weak at inhibiting CYP2D6.

Black pepper tea made from 7 grams of black pepper, filtered, works very well to inhibit CYP2D6.

DO NOT TAKE PIPERINE TO INHIBIT CYP2D6. IT WILL PROBABLY NOT WORK. There is no evidence that I could find that piperine inhibits CYP2D6 to any degree. Other compounds in black pepper are proven to potently inhibit CYP2D6 in vitro. See here: http://herbpedia.wikidot.com/cyp2d6

All I know is that whole black pepper messes things up for me at any dose of 5 grams or more. Black pepper tea works wonders at 7 grams. Piperine has very poor solubility in water. So black pepper tea has very little piperine in it. I believe piperine does something to mess up the activation. I'm not sure what it does exactly. But filtering black pepper tea makes it work way better and that action removes most of the piperine but extracts the other alkaloids that are proven to inhibit CYP2D6 in vitro.

Whole black pepper seems to be a double edged sword. Piperine seems very bad for activation, while the other water soluble actives are great for activation.

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