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Calamus nausea treatment: fennel and lime water

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maggy

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Sep 12 08 9:00 PM

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On the internet I came across this article:

"Its overdose can induce vomiting and such a situation can be managed by giving the powder of saunf with lime water. Different varieties of vacha are available in the market, but the best of them is known as ghorha bach."

That's from this link.

http://herbtime.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/vacha-acorus-calamus/

"Saunf" is is another name for fennel seed. "Vacha" is another name for calamus.

Does "saunf" usually refer to sweet fennel or bitter fennel? Sweet fennel contains a lot of anethole. Does anethole counteract the nausea caused by asarone?

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hendrix

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Sep 13 08 8:51 AM

Interesting find. What kind of “lime water”? There are two things called “lime water”, one is water saturated calcium hydroxide solution, the other is actually water with lime juice. They are two totally different things. They probably mean water with lime juice.

I’m curious if the fennel is sweet fennel. It most likely is. So then this “asarone” nausea antidote is the anethole most likely. Anethole inhibits spasms in the intestinal tract. But I read that asarone also does this.

By the way, I have read that alpha-asarone causes nausea, and also that beta-asarone causes nausea. Which one actually does? Maybe it’s not these. Maybe it’s something else in calamus? The American, European, Indian and Japanese varieties all cause nausea if you take a little too much, according to reports I read from users. There is unfortunately no calamus that is nausea free. Whatever causes the nausea is present in different amounts from batch to batch, and occurs in all calamus worldwide.

The anti-emetics terpinolene, alpha-phellandrene and beta-pinene, which are the 5-HT3 antagonists found in ginger, are also present in some calamus. Their levels might reduce or eliminate the nausea from calamus if they are present in large enough quantities in certain batches.

Calamus from Mongolia contains alpha-phellandrene and beta-pinene. Calamus from Nepal contains terpinolene. Calamus from Korea seems to lack these compounds. I don’t know about the others.

Calamus varies a lot in its chemical makeup from batch to batch. Some very rare batches are potently psychedelic, but probably 99% of them are not. All reports I saw of people getting great psychedelic effects from a single batch of calamus were later unable to repeat the results with other batches of the same kind of calamus. There is unfortunately no calamus available that is consistently psychedelic, not even Calamus Americanus. The unknown psychedelic component, most likely the allylbenzene version of asarone, euasarone, like all the other components in calamus, apparently varies a lot from batch to batch. This is why no vendor sells “psychedelic calamus” but people still occasionally experience psychedelic effects from common calamus without warning.

If euasarone is THE PSYCHEDELIC of calamus, and there is a very good chance that it is, it’s only present in very small amounts. So to trip from it, you’ll need to take doses high enough to cause nausea. So rather than concentrate on trying to locate the magical golden strain of psychedelic calamus, which doesn’t actually exist, we should concentrate on how to alleviate the nausea calamus causes. Or find a way to isolate the euasarone from the rest of the crap in the oil.

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69ron

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Sep 13 08 3:46 PM

Euasarone is probably the psychedelic allylbenzene in calamus. It's also probably VERY POTENT. The amphetamine version is active at only 20 mg. Calamus contains trimethylamine, dimethylamine, and methylamine which the body can use to aminate euasarone right after it oxidizes the tail.

Trimethylamine, dimethylamine, and methylamine are all highly water soluble and can be extracted from calamus using cold water.

I wonder if it has utility in Oilahuasca?Trimethylamine, dimethylamine, and methylamine are great for creating alkaloids in vivo from all allylbenzenes.

The nausea causing component of calamus is not water soluble, as far I know.

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#3 [url]

Sep 14 08 1:43 AM

we should concentrate on how to alleviate the nausea calamus causes...

-hendrix


In another forum, 69ron said of SWIM-

"He washed calamus with acetone, and then extracted it with cold water. The results were indeed mildly psychedelic, stimulating, and without any stomach irritation at all. The acetone got rid of the nauseating toxin, and also got rid of a sedative effect in it (asarone is a sedative that also causes nausea). Apparently there’s a stimulant present in calamus that’s insoluble in acetone. Its mildly psychedelic and very pleasant. It starts with a tingling sensation in the mouth that spreads throughout the body. Later light simulation and euphoria are felt along with very mild visual effects.

Since this finding SWIM now uses calamus more often. The effects are greatly improved after washing with acetone.

A few others on another forum have also tried this and found it worked for them too.

Because this acetone wash removes asarone, but the results are more stimulating and psychedelic after the wash, it stands to reason that asarone is not the desired compound in calamus.
This worked for SWIM several times, but may not work with all calamus, and will NOT work if heat is used at any point in time.

Give it a try. Wash 10 grams of ground calamus with 100 ml of acetone by mixing for 1 hour. Filter off the acetone and discard it. Whatever you do, do NOT ingest the acetone extract, even if dried, SWIM once did and it caused sedation and serious nonstop vomiting for many hours because it contains a ton of asarone. Just discard it. Next dry the calamus with a fan (no heat) until all the acetone is gone. Then steep the calamus in 2 cups of cold water for 1 hour. strain and drink."
 
Emphasis (bold and italics) added by me.
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69ron

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#4 [url]

Sep 16 08 8:38 AM

There are definitely actives in calamus besides asarone and the other essential oils. Calamus is active with most of the essential oils removed.

Some calamus oil is also mildly psychedelic though. What I have from Nepal is very mildly psychedelic. I think it’s because of the euasarone content, although it’s not listed (most vendors don’t list the euasarone content of their oil). But it’s only psychedelic when the dose is just right. If too much is taken, it seems like the asarone messes up the experience. Beta-asarone is a sedative with anti-psychedelic effects. And from what I’ve heard alpha-asarone is also very uninteresting.

This last weekend was my very first time using calamus essential oil. The oil I used was from Nepal. At 3 drops (60 mg) it was mildly psychedelic, and quite pleasant. It was not identical to acetone washed calamus, but it was similar in some ways.

Euasarone (also known as gamma-asarone) has an XLogP3 of 3.1. It’s an essential oil present in nearly all calamus oil (even though it’s often not listed). Washing calamus with acetone will remove eusarone, beta-asarone, and alpha-asarone. But it’s very possible that euasarone exists in different forms in calamus. There may be an analog of euasarone that’s water soluble that’s also in calamus. Not all of the compounds of calamus are currently known.

I would like to experiment with pure eusarone and see what it’s like. I don’t know how to isolate it though.

One compound present in calamus called asarylaldehyde is very similar to eusarone, and it should be able to form alkaloids with the dimethylamine, trimethylamine, and methylamine which are also present in calamus.

Asarylaldehyde is somewhat water soluble with an XLogP3-AA of 1.3. It’s possible that after an acetone wash, a lot of asarylaldehyde remains in the calamus. This aldehyde will form alkaloids when ingested by humans. This could very well be the active principle of calamus, and not actually eusarone. It’s very similar to eusarone, but should form alkaloids in vivo more easily because it’s already an aldehyde.

(Z)-3-(2,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)prop-2-enal is another aldehyde similar to eusarone that could form an alkaloid in vivo. It’s XLogP3 is 1.9, so it’s probably washed away by acetone.

Beta-asarone and alpha-asarone are propenylbenzenes, and therefore cannot be psychedelic, because propenylbenzenes cannot form alkaloids in vivo. Only the allylbenzenes and aldehydes in calamus can form alkaloids in vivo. So the main psychedelic must be one of these, since no actual alkaloids have been found YET in calamus (as far as I know). There was once report of calamine being an alkaloid present in calamus, until later it was found to be simply trimethylamine. However, trimethylamine should be able to react with all the aldehydes present in calamus and form alkaloids under the right conditions. It probably does this in the human digestive system.

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#5 [url]

Oct 14 12 3:12 PM

I have experimented with many psychadelic substances both common and uncommon over many years, as a part of my research to discover the self and the connection between humans and nature. I have used hallucenogens recreationally in the past, but I only recommend such use for serious self exploration or spiritual developement. Although it's always pleasant to have a good laugh, these substances are natures tools to help awaken us and should not be abused or taken lightly.

I have found an excellent psychotropic mix that works wonders for meditation, self enjoyment, and connecting with nature and the cosmos. Through trial and error I found that the following works best to aid in my rituals... Chew 9 to 18 Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds for 5-10 minutes, sucking on the juices. Spit out or swallow the seeds. (may feel mild nausea, motion sickness pills will help) Then swallow 3 to 6 grams of chewed chopped or powdered Acorus Calamus.

The full effects could take up to three hours before noticed. So be careful and be patient. This combo mix's effects should be easily equally intense to a good shroom trip or can be compared to a hit of good paper.(LSD) Calamus by itself can create a speedy but relaxing MDMA like feeling and can be hallucenogenic in larger doses. It often creates feelings of hapiness and great energy. HBWR seeds create hallucenogenic effects similar to LSD, but not as potent and have a tendancy to be more of a downer by themselves. Mixing these two together is not dangerous. They will greatly intensify the effects of each other. The experience is mind opening colorful and psychadelic to say the least. My experience with it has been nothing but positive. The trip has an energy of its own and can last up to 12 hours. The experience really shouldn,t be compared to alot of recreational drug use or other Psychoactive use. A nice long walk through the woods is recommended. So this is what I call my spirit mix. Good luck to all thats interested and have a good trip...See you on the other side....

From: Erowid.

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#7 [url]

Oct 15 12 11:12 AM

Calamus is a great memory ally! Calamus instead of Nutmeg, which is anti-cholinergic (at least a bit) it's great, and Ayurvedic medicine is used from thousands years!

I think Calamus is not so toxic in low doses, (like 5gr) but keep in mind that higher doses it's an emetic (like Lobelia).

I'd like to try Calamus and Ipomea spp. togheter, alog with some Kola Nut. (In my opinion, the perfect candy-flip or with Sassafrass). Calamus all the way!

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sativa

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#8 [url]

Oct 15 12 1:59 PM

I'll get myself some Calamus and run tests...

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