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SSAO (Semicarbazide-Sensitive Amine Oxidase) Inhibitors

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69ron

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#61 [url]

Feb 17 10 5:56 AM

A friend of mine tested DMT for activation with SSAO inhibition. He used 300 mg DMT, 500 mg Cranesbill root, and 2 drops Calamus for absorption. No effects noted. The calamus and cranesbill doses have worked for him in the past with phenethylamine.I told him he was retarded for wasting DMT like that but he wanted to do it anyway. It was either trip super balls or feel nothing.So DMT cannot be activated by SSAO inhibition. :(

-toastus

If you also inhibit MAO-A then I bet an SSAO inhibitor will potentiate DMT. But without MAO-A inhibited, forget about it.

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toastus

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#62 [url]

Feb 17 10 4:45 PM


If you also inhibit MAO-A then I bet an SSAO inhibitor will potentiate DMT. But without MAO-A inhibited, forget about it.

-69ron

Yeah, that sucks. I wanted to be able to get DMT working without any inhibition of norepinephrine or serotonin metabolism, but that doesn't look like it's meant to happen, lol.

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hendrix

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#63 [url]

Feb 17 10 6:28 PM

What if you use the DMT transdermally or sublingually with an SSAO? That should bypass a lot of the MAO in the stomach. That might work.

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

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toastus

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#65 [url]

Feb 24 10 12:46 AM

Which easy to get OTC SSAO inhibitor is the longest lasting? Which is the shortest? Which one is the most potent?

-twister

Cranesbill is probably the most potent, but this hasn't been verified by tests with the same person. My doses are always higher than 69rons, and in me it works at 500 mg while glucosamine works at 1500 in 69ron, so I figure cranesbill is the most potent but I can't prove it yet.

As for duration I don't know yet. All SSAO inhibitors [at leas cranesbill and caffeine] seem to waver in and out, like they're causing waves of action that take a long time to fully stop. So you'll feel MDMA-like "waves" or "rolls" after an initial roll lasting two or three hours [with cranesbill].

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hendrix

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#66 [url]

Feb 24 10 2:26 AM

Caffeine is short, about 2 hours tops. 1 cup of coffee is much weaker than 1500 mg of glucosamine HCl. Glucosamine HCl lasts all day long. I never tried a dose smaller than 1500 mg of glucosamine HCl because the pills I saw that they sell at the store are all that size. Its the standard recommended dose.

1500 mg glucosamine HCl is at least 5-10 times stronger at inhibiting SSAO than 1 cup of coffee. This is a guess based on the big boost you get from PEA with glucosamine HCl compared to 1 cup of coffee.

When you use coffee or caffeine PEA is activated for just a few hours. When you use 1500 mg of glucosamine HCl PEA is activating for the entire day.

I never tried anything with geraniin in it. Cranesbill is supposed to have geraniin. Geraniin is classified as a potent SSAO inhibitor.

Between the eyes and ears there lie The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh

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69ron

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#67 [url]

Feb 24 10 6:41 AM




Caffeine SSAO inhibition potency is reported as IC50=0.8 mM. The effects are short. The half-life of caffeine is about 5 hours. I can only feel caffeine working as an SSAO inhibitor for about 1 1/2-2 hours. I feel it take effect in about 30 minutes or so.

Phenylethylamine is 0.3 mM. That's 2.6 times more potent than caffeine. It's half-life is about 10 minutes, but that's because its rapidly destroyed by MAO-B. But if you take enough to saturate MAO-B, then obviously it's half-life is much longer. I don't have the figures for that half-life unfortunately. If I take enough phenylethylamine to get it working (or take it with an MAO-B inhibitor) I feel its SSAO inhibitor effects for about 3 hours or so. I feel it take effect in about 1 hour.

Geraniin is 0.00658 mM. That's 121.58 times more potent than caffeine. I can't find half-life figures for this compound. I have not yet tried this.

Glucosamine has an unknown IC50. It has a half-life of 15 hours. I think we can all agree that 1500 mg of glucosamine is a much more potent SSAO inhibitor than the caffeine found in 1 cup of coffee (about 100 mg) and it lasts much longer. I can feel glucosamine working all day long. I feel it take effect in about 10 minutes.

Half-life plays a role, but it doesn't correlate 100% to the SSAO inhibition duration had by these compounds.


It seems to me that 1500 mg of glucosamine HCl is probably overkill. When I take 3000 mg, I can't really feel it more than 1500 mg. I think SSAO is probably inhibited to the maximum at less than 1500 mg but I never tested lower doses.

I will do some tests using lower doses of glucosamine HCl shortly. I unfortunately still feel the phenylethylamine test I did yesterday with glucosamine. The effects lasted more then 24 hours. So I want to wait until my body gets back to baseline before doing anymore SSAO inhibitor tests.

My feeling is that glucosamine inhibits SSAO for at least 24 hours or more when mixed with phenylethylamine. I think they boost each other's SSAO inhibiting effects greatly when combined. I don't recall the SSAO inhibitor effects of glucosamine lasting this long when taken on its own (perhaps 8-14 hours or so).

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69ron

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#68 [url]

Feb 24 10 7:01 AM

I suspect that geraniin (from the herb cranesbill) will have a duration of action similar to that caffeine and phenylethylamine. Like caffeine and phenylethylaminegeraniin is a subtrate and competitive inhibitor of SSAO. It's doesn't bind to the enzyme.

Glucosamine is NOT a substrate of SSAO so its not a competitive inhibitor of SSAO. In the presence of H2O2 glucosamine actually BINDS to SSAO. That's a whole different kind of action. Inhibitors that are competitive substrates are typically short acting while inhibitors that bind to the enzyme usually last much longer. This matches my experience with it compared with caffeine and phenylethylamine.

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sativa

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#69 [url]

Mar 6 10 6:20 PM

generally
If you also inhibit MAO-A then I bet an SSAO inhibitor will potentiate DMT. But without MAO-A inhibited, forget about it

-69ron

Would an SSAO inhibitor generally potentiate anything that is attacked by MAO-A or MAO-B?

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69ron

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#70 [url]

Mar 6 10 8:38 PM


Sativa, after doing more research I have to say NO. SSAO appears to be unable deaminate any dimethylamines, piperidines, pyrrolidines, or other complex amines. However it might cause some other interactions because it will prevent deamination of other compounds in the body that might increase the effects of DMT.

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#71 [url]

Aug 3 11 2:51 AM

I just tried using cranesbill, Geranium maculatum, root to activate PEA. I prepared 2g of dried root by boiling it in water for about 2.5 hours. This produced a deep brown tea with a reddish tint. The cranesbill brew was taken 25 minutes before drinking a cup of coffee with 2g of PEA dissolved into it.

This worked very well. The PEA was activated, producing a tingling and euphoric rush lasting about 15 minutes, followed by 20 minutes of decreasing effects, after which a plateau was reached consisting of a mood lift, slight alterations to vision and coordination, mild music enhancement, and mild-moderate sedation and relaxation. This plateau has been going for about 1.5 hours so far.

These are the normal effects that I get when activating PEA successfully using other substances. The only difference is that there might be a little more sedation at the plateau than usual. I feel a little stoned actually. But this has happened before so it might just be chance and not due to the cranesbill.

So it seems that I've successfully replicated Toastus's experiment using cranesbill to activate PEA. It works as well as any of the other things I've used to activate PEA. It works a good deal better than glucosamine on its own.

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