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Phenylethylamine + MAO-B & SSAO inhibitors

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69ron

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Feb 23 10 2:07 AM

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I just did a test using phenylethylamine with MAO-B and SSAO inhbitors.

Here's the timeline so far:

T-0:20 Oral: 1500 mg glucosamine HCl (SSAO inhibitor)

T-0:05 EFFECTS: I feel the SSAO effects of glucosamine already. It's nice but mild.
T+0:00 Oral: 1500 mg glucosamine HCl, 500 mg phenylethylamine HCl, 100 mg hordenine freebase, 100 mg rutin, 1 cup of Folger's instant coffee.
T+0:06 EFFECTS: I feel an uneasy feeling, slightly tight throat, very slight nausea. This is typical for me when using phenylethylamine if the MAO-B inhibitors are a bit late to take effect. 
T+0:10 EFFECTS: the same + I feel a bit stimulated and slightly nervous.
T+0:15 EFFECTS: the uneasy feeling in the stomach and throat are fading. I feel a pleasant LSD-like electric feeling. I am getting extremely sensitive to loud sound.
T+0:25 EFFECTS: euphoria and tingling sensations are just starting. I feel pretty good. The uneasy feeling has passed. I don't feel the typical mushy feeling I usually get from phenylethylamine. It feels much sharper, crisper, more like an LSD-style stimulant than usual. THIS IS VERY NICE!
T+1:00 EFFECTS: music sounds great! There's some euphoria, but it's mostly dependent on external stimuli. There's a pleasant tingling sensation all over the body. Sense of touch is enhanced. It's definitely mildly psychedelic, and much stronger than without the SSAO inhibitor.
T+2:00 EFFECTS: the effects are a bit weaker but pretty much the same. At this point I have another cup of coffee.

This was much stronger than I would have expected from 500 mg phenylethylamine HCl with just the MAO-B inhibitors (hordenine and rutin). However the effects are different.

Normally when I use phenylethylamine with MAO-B inhibitors there are 2 very distinct phases.

Phase 1: I taste and smell phenylethylamine strongly. My sweat smells like it. I feel a bit uneasy, especially in the throat and stomach. This phase usually ends in about 45 minutes.

Phase 2: at this point, 1 hour after, that phenylehylamine taste and smell is no longer present. The effects shift and are much more pleasant. The effects at that point are more mental and not so body oriented.

With the SSAO inhibitor, it never gets to phase 2. It stays in phase 1. My sweat continues to smell like phenylethylamine. I continue to taste it in my mouth too. Phenylethylamine has a very specific taste and odor. It's pretty strong.

It appears that with an MAO-B inhibitor only, the phenylethylamine gets metabolized at about the 1 hour point by SSAO and becomes a much more pleasant compound. With SSO inhibited, that phase 2 compound doesn't get created, or at least its not noticeable.

On the plus side, the effects are not mushy or sedating. But I feel it much more in the body. Its a lessor experience for me overall, but its way stronger.

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69ron

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Feb 23 10 3:56 AM

So what's going on here? Without MAO-B or SSAO inhibited I get no effects at all from 500 mg of phenylethylamine.

With MAO-B inhibited I get weak effects at 500 mg. I usually need 600 mg phenylethylamine to get decent effects. With this mix there are 2 very distinct phases. Phase 1 feels body oriented, and lasts about 1 hour. Phase 2 feels more pleasant, is less body oriented, and lasts just a few hours.

With SSAO inhibited I get only phase 1 effects. They are weak, but last many hours. I also get quite a bit of bodily effects. This is not pleasant for me. 500 mg phenylethylamine this way is equal to about 550 mg used with MAO-B inhibitors.

With SSAO + MAO-B inhibited I also only get phase 1 effects. They are very strong, and it lasts several hours. Bodily effects are less than SSAO used alone, but they are still present. The effects are overall quite pleasurable, but not as nice as MAO-B used alone. 500 mg of phenylethylamine this way is equal to about 650 mg used with MAO-B inhibitors alone.

So what's happening exactly here?

SSAO appears to be needed in order to get to the more pleasurable phase 2 effects. But why?

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Feb 23 10 6:03 AM


SSAO appears to be needed in order to get to the more pleasurable phase 2 effects. But why?

-69ron

I also would describe the effects that I get from PEA as having two phases. For me, the first phase is generally delineated by the tingling sensation and a sort of euphoria that is felt when taking deep breaths. It also includes music enhancement and sometimes very mild visuals.

The second phase begins when these effects end. At this point, I only feel a slight stimulant effect and a nice mood lift. These effects are much weaker for me and less interesting.

Is this similar to your phases?

I experience both phases when I take PEA with only MAO-B inhibitors and when only taken with SSAO inhibitors. But I actually find that the second phase is stronger and more pleasurable when taken with SSAO inhibitors. I also find the second phase to be more similar to a low dose of Morning Glories when taken with SSAO inhibitors.

Perhaps I should say that it actually causes a different phase between the usual two phases. But I can achieve the Morning Glory effect for a short period of time from PEA+MAO-B inhibitors if I go for a moderate-long run during phase 2. So it isn't exactly a different phase.

It seems like the metabolism of PEA may be similar to that of allylbenzenes in that there is a range of possibilities, and differences in enzymes and body chemistry play a role in the actual effects that a person experiences. It just isn't as quite as complicated or hard to get working.

Maybe the difference between using MAO-B inhibitors and SSAO inhibitors with PEA is that these enzymes are found in different parts of the body that therefore provide different environments and encourage the formation of different metabolites.

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69ron

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Feb 23 10 8:45 AM





I also would describe the effects that I get from PEA as having two phases. For me, the first phase is generally delineated by the tingling sensation and a sort of euphoria that is felt when taking deep breaths. It also includes music enhancement and sometimes very mild visuals.The second phase begins when these effects end. At this point, I only feel a slight stimulant effect and a nice mood lift. These effects are much weaker for me and less interesting.Is this similar to your phases?

-powerfulmedicine



Yes, but phase 2 is usually much nicer, and stronger than phase 1, for me. But not in this test. This time phase 1 was much stronger and quite nice.

It's been so far 7 hours and it's about 60% as strong as it was at the peak. Only phase 1 effects are felt. I am not reaching phase 2 effects at all.

SSAO inhibition from glucosamine lasts a very long time! At least 7+ hours!


I experience both phases when I take PEA with only MAO-B inhibitors and when only taken with SSAO inhibitors. But I actually find that the second phase is stronger and more pleasurable when taken with SSAO inhibitors. I also find the second phase to be more similar to a low dose of Morning Glories when taken with SSAO inhibitors.

-powerfulmedicine



I would describe my phase 1 effects as being similar to LSA in the body feel. For me phase 2 is mostly mental, with almost no body LSA-like effects.
 

Perhaps I should say that it actually causes a different phase between the usual two phases. But I can achieve the Morning Glory effect for a short period of time from PEA+MAO-B inhibitors if I go for a moderate-long run during phase 2. So it isn't exactly a different phase.

-powerfulmedicine



Interesting. I cannot do that. With MAO-B inhibitors only, that LSA feel is never part of phase 2.


It seems like the metabolism of PEA may be similar to that of allylbenzenes in that there is a range of possibilities, and differences in enzymes and body chemistry play a role in the actual effects that a person experiences. It just isn't as quite as complicated or hard to get working.

-powerfulmedicine



I agree.


Maybe the difference between using MAO-B inhibitors and SSAO inhibitors with PEA is that these enzymes are found in different parts of the body that therefore provide different environments and encourage the formation of different metabolites.

-powerfulmedicine



What's puzzling to me is that I can't get to phase 2 effects at all when SSAO is inhibited.

If I take phenylethylamine on its own I need a pretty big dose, but I still go from phase 1 to phase 2. It's after about 1 hour that the shift happens from phase 1 to phase 2.

With MAO-B inhibitors, the dosage of phenylethylamine is lowered, but I still go from phase 1 to phase 2 at about the 1 hour point.

It's at that cross road point between phase 1 and phase 2 that I sometimes get mind blowing euphoria from phenylethylamine. But it only lasts about 15-30 minutes. It's as if there can be 3 phases: phase 1, phase 1B, and phase 2. Phase 1B is extremely euphoric, but its rare when it happens, and its short lived.

I am not feeling that "1B" phase with SSAO inhibited. I stay suck in phase 1. And boy does it last a long time. The peak starts at 1 hour, but it's a very long peak. The peak lasts at least an additional hour. Here I am 7+ hours later and it's still going very strong. Still very pleasant, but I'm still in the phase 1 effects.

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69ron

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Feb 23 10 8:48 AM

The forum is having some strange bugs today...I had to delete several duplicate posts.

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hendrix

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Feb 23 10 6:28 PM


I LIKE THIS COMBO!
I already tried this a while ago but without the rutin. PEA + hordenine + glucosamine is the strongest PEA mix I have ever tried. I could still feel the PEA the next day! I didn't see the connection until I read this thread but yea like you guys said It feels a lot like HBWR. I was tingly all over for many hours in the way HBWR feels. The body effects are almost exactly like HBWR. But I was never drowsy.

I got several waves of unbelievable euphoria while dancing to music. It was beautiful.

The effects were like HBWR, but cleaner, not drowsy at all, more of a stimulant, and way less psychedelic.

It was a little psychedelic. The psychedelic effects were mainly noticed while dancing and listening to music.

At the end of the day I had visual effects while trying to sleep. The next day I woke up and could still feel it.

Now my question. Are the super long extended effects of PEA caused by SSAO inhibition? Is glucosamine inhibiting SSAO for about 24 hours?

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69ron

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Feb 23 10 8:05 PM

Now my question. Are the super long extended effects of PEA caused by SSAO inhibition? Is glucosamine inhibiting SSAO for about 24 hours?

-hendrix

Most probably it is.

I don't know how long glulcosamine can inhibit SSAO. I assume it inhibits it as long as it lasts in the body.

I looked up the half life of glulcosamine. Guess what? ITS 15 HOURS! Glucosamine can be detected for up to 48 hours after oral use. That's a long time. So we can probably expect glulcosamine's SSAO inhibition to last at least 15 hours or more. 


See the study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16168682

I still feel it this morning. It's been 18 hours. It's at about 20% of the original peak potency. This is longer lasting than just using SSAO inhibitors. And much longer than just using MAO-B inhibitors (but the effects are different).

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toastus

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Feb 24 11 11:05 PM

Geraniin (cranesbill root water extract) also lasts a long time in me, about five hours. It is really potent at inhibiting SSAO.

Thanks for the information in this thread... it helps me understand some of the tests I did a while back.

You guys should try PEA with geraniin... the water extract inhibits SSAO at only 100 mg.

 

Last Edited By: toastus Feb 24 11 11:21 PM. Edited 1 time.

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