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Allylbenzene Activation

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Jan 20 11 6:35 PM

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this will be the main thread for discussing how to activate allylbenzenes and what kinds of things can prevent activation.

this thread needed making, and i intend on listing many things i suspect is the reason many members have yet to achieve the activity the older members are able to get.
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#1 [url]

Jan 20 11 11:49 PM

this is a list of things you need to avoid everyday or you essentially have zero chance of activation:

Here's a list of all known 17bHSD2 inhibitors that should be avoided when using allylbenzenes:

    Quercetin and all food or supplements containing large amounts of it.
    Apples (0.0263% quercetin)[6]
    Cabbage (0.01% quercetin)[6]
    Cranberry (0.025% quercetin)[6]
    Evening-Primrose (20% quercetin)[6]
    Galangin and all food or supplements containing large amounts of it.
    Garlic (0.02% quercetin)[6]
    Grapefruit (contains naringenin, kaempferol, galangin, and quercetin)
    Himalayan Mayapple (1.2% quercetin)[6]
    Kaempferide and all food or supplements containing large amounts of it.
    kaempferol and all foods that contain large amounts it.
    Mayapple (5% quercetin)[6]
    Naringenin and all food or supplements containing large amounts of it.
    Neem (0.1% Quercetin)[6]
    Oats (0.031% Quercetin)[6]
    Onions (4.81% quercetin).[6]
    Orange (4.58% naringenin)[6]
    Tea (10-25 mg/L quercetin, 6.3-17 mg/L kaempferol [7]).[6]
    Tomato (contains kaempferol, naringenin)
    Yuzu (contains naringenin)
Broccoli
Capers
Cherries
Citrus fruit
Cranberries
Leafy green vegetables
Raspberries
Red grapesLovage
Chamomille Tea
Wine
Bilbery
prickly pear cactus fruits
crowberry
rowanberry
sea buckthorn berry
blueberry
sweet potato
cow peas
plums, black
lingonberry
chokeberry
kale
buckwheat
watercress
dill
dock like sorrel
Peppermint oil
Feverfew
kava
5-hydroxyeugenol
Apigenin
Echinacea
Black pepper
Cinnamon (but not cinnamon oil)
Cayenne pepper
Ginger
Ginkgo biloba
Pummelo
Saint John’s Wort
Turmeric
Eugenol
Milk Thistle
 

 

 

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#3 [url]

Jan 21 11 1:10 AM

that is why space paste causes tolerence.

properly activated oilahuasca on a methyl-chavicol foundation retains reverse tolerance, meaning it gets stronger the more times you use it.(minutes, hours, days, weeks, keep dosing)

properly activated methyl chavicol(sweet basil oil) is on an entirely different level than space paste, why do i say this? because i have experienced full blow space paste experiences many many times and i have experiences full blow MC experiences many many times space paste is messy (wide range of effects) and is at best considered a sub-activation.

once you experience a full blown activation of MC with oils and no space paste involved you will understand very clearly the difference and why i use the term sub-activation and why basil oil can produce a full-activation and space paste can only produce partial activation.(the old users who get consistent activation will tell you what we mean about partial activation and full activation, space pastes potency is comparable to a half-activated oilahuasca experience)

you not getting the full picture here, but it is good to see you like the taste you are getting.

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#5 [url]

Jan 21 11 9:50 AM

Aren't you guys talking about different things? There is little to no methyl chavicol in space paste.

I personally have tried lots of different strategies reccommended on this forum to activate basil oil of the MC chemotype. Even the consistent mini-dosing to let basil oil activate itself. I have not had any success with activation and stopped all experiments, as I really started to dislike the taste and smell of the oil. However, I am pretty sure there is something to methyl chavicol, because one time it almost felt like a micro dose of some psychedelic (vision and touch senses were greatly enhanced).

But nutmeg is something else. I have had wonderful euphoric experiences with grounded nutmeg. I always took it with a drug called GBL, which amplified all the positive effects and there were little to no negative effects. Guess what? The body uses alcohol and aldehyde dehydrogenase enzymes to metabolise GBL. So - my theory is that these are the main two enzymes responsible for blocking the full activation of nutmeg. Ofcourse, there are also others, but these two are the most significant.

You know what in space paste kicks out both of those enzymes? Pistachios. They contain isoflavones (daidzein and genistein), same as Kudzu. And pistachios also INDUCE 17bHSD2! While the space paste recipe says raw pistachios, it actually doesn't matter it they are roasted or not: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17263455 . To me it seems that pistachios are the main reason for space paste's successful activation. You could probably leave out some other things, add more pistachios, and the experience could be even better. I must say, that I haven't yet tried space paste myself, but I will soon.

One ingredient seems to be somewhat underrated - maple syrup. Maple syrup actually contains syringaldehyde, which besides being a ALDH substrate, also inhibits ADH. I think adding some vanillin could also help.

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#6 [url]

Jan 21 11 3:30 PM

first off you want to INDUCE ALCOHOL DEHYDROGENASE and INHIBIT ALDEHYDE DEHYDROGENASE we have already long ago concreted this information from countless experimentation with many users.

almost all users have reported that INHIBITING alcohol dehydrogenase moderately or strongly leads to almost complete prevention of allylbenzene activation.

almost all users have reported that INDUCING aldehyde dehydrogenase leads to almost completely failed activation of allybenzenes.

there are a set of inhibitors we had been using that strongly inhibited ALDH and related enzymes but not ADH.

the list that was being shared i found to not work as well so i took 2-3 things out and i instantly started getting great results.

the results basically are that by inhibiting ALDH and inducing ADH you increase the potency of allylbenzenes and improve the odds of activation by many fold and also extend the duration VERY LONG.

i will dig up the list and post it, i will leave out the things i personally took out because many of them inhibit enzymes important for activation.

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#8 [url]

Jan 21 11 4:30 PM

Can we get an actual diet instead of what not to eat? I want to talk about excellent foods that promote the experience too. Some people can't fast for medical reasons and this is by no means a complete list of what NOT to eat. Some who acknowledge this diet could still be inhibiting with their favorite foods. Perhaps a webpage to figure out it the foods we eat contain any inhibitors.

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#9 [url]

Jan 21 11 6:48 PM

I'm also speaking from personal experience - ADH inhibition definately worked for me and massively improved the experience. Also, http://herbpedia.wikidot.com/oilahuasca-activators under ADH we can find this statement: "THIS SECTION IS HIGHLY THEORETICAL", so I don't want to drop this idea yet. But how exactly can you induce ADH? From Wiki I can only find inhibitors and no inducers.

I'm really looking forward to your list.

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#10 [url]

Jan 21 11 8:25 PM

first off to induce ADH you take as many strong short lasting ADH inhibitors as you can at the same time (on a schedueled timer) everyday at the exact same time for 2-3 days then on the day you want to induce it you simply do not take any ADH inhibitors that day at all and your body automatically gives a serge of ADH induction to compensate for the steady flow of ADH inhibitors it comes to expect every day at the same time, if you do not take it for 2-3 or more days in a row on a timer at the same time each day it will probably not work, you need to trick your body into thinking it needs to compensate for continued ADH inhibition and then cut the ADH inhibitor intake abruptly so you get strong ADH induction.

it may be possible to do this in a shorter time frame on a smaller scale for instance: take moderate or strong ADH inhibitors you know are short lasting maybe every hour or half hour on a timer at the exact same time every hour or half hour then after maybe 4-6 doses of this just stop and when that time comes next hour you should have ADH induction in your body.

molecules that penetrate beyond the stomach and into other tissues need to be considered as ADH and ALDH can exist in many places in the body outside the gut, so if you inhibitors are peppermint oil then it will probably penetrate every cell in your body by the time you take it the 3-4th time because the menthol makes it spread so well, wile things that do not absorb extra good may only inhibit/induce in the digestive tract and some tissues with close proximity to it.

it will take me a couple weeks to compile all the most vital things for activation and what ones are daily and what ones are on the day of only, be patient.

some things that should be taken daily for improving the odds of activation when you do try are:

L-lysine - 2-3 grams 1 in the morning 1 before bed - take extra on the day of

star anise EO and/or aniseed EO
(or chew aniseeds and/or make tea from aniseeds and/or star anise, probably avoid actually eating star anise solids but aniseeds are fine to eat if you chew them well and maybe take them with some food) - 1-X drops 2-3 times a day 1 in the morning 1 at lunch 1 before bed, you can go higher than 1 drop that is why i put X its up to you how intense you want it to be. mix with peanut butter and/or olive oil to assist safe absorption. take extra on the day of.

vitamin D3 500~mg or more i do not know dose, 1-3 times a day may work better than once. possibly extra on day of.
1000 MCG vitamin B9 possibly extra on day of.
100-300 mg vitamin B3 possibly extra on day of.
possibly 100 mg or more vitamin B6, possibly extra on day of. (it may be better to have less of this on the day of.
LOTS of vitamin B12 like the absolute highest possible non-lethal dose daily, possibly extra on day of.

EXCERSIZE DAILY OR IT WILL PROBABLY NOTTTTTTTTTTT WORK most people will probably get sub par effects if they do not bring themselves to break a sweat at least once every day, do some push ups, sit ups, etc etc (there are chemical reasons you need to do this in order for this to work) - certainly extra on day of.

foods high in the above vitamins that do not contain the things we need to avoid are ideal for this as it reduces capsule/tablet intake witch helps a lot, i would still add half or quarter of a tablet anyway even if you took the listed doses through food sources.

milk thistle - i dont know dose take it like 1-3 times a day not lots but moderate amount (avoid on day of activation)

beet root extract capsules - 1-3 times a day every day i do not know dose (avoid on day of activation)

cinnamon EO (not powder) - 1-5 drops 1-3 times a day every day. extra on day of.

Pomegranate 40% ellagic acid extract - i do not know dose, take on day of activation possibly take twice that day once 60 minutes beforehand and maybe again 30-15 minutes beforehand.

Kudzu - i do not know dose, take on the day of, maybe 15-30 or more minutes prior to allylbenzenes

green tea extract - EGCG i have found if this is taken before and possibly with allylbenzenes it causes extremely potent activation. i do not know dose, if you shoot high prep for potential kappa terror (salvia-like) - take on the day of.

Valerian root oil - i do not know dose, valerian capsules have worked for me to give a large boost in activation probability and end result potency. taken on the day of, before allylbenznes.

Glucosamine - 500mg - 1500mg on the day of

Rutin -  i do not know dose, it can be hard to find foods containing this that do not contain quercetin, take on the day of, possibly before and/or with allybenzenes.

every time i say 1-3 times i day i mean in the morning at lunch and before bed.

the things underlined and in bold are the things of greatest importance that come to mind as i was putting this post together.

VERY IMPORTANT - you must avoid most of the things that are listed as on the day of during the days leading up to activation otherwise you will be throwing monkey wrenches into your own enzymatic machine THIS IS IMPORTANT AND PROBABLY THE REASON MANY USERS WHO FOLLOW MOST THINGS STRICTLY STILL TEND TO GET SHODDY RESULTS. every time you do something and then do it again the next day around the same time it will cause a rebound effect on your bodies enzymes that it effects the more close it is to the same time each day the more pronounced this effect will be, this is why almost everything that is listed under "on the day of" must be avoided on the days leading up to activation attempt.

/horribly crippling spoon feeding

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#11 [url]

Jan 21 11 8:32 PM

the better results you got from ADH inhibition might have been from non-allylbenzene oil constituents that are alcohols cycling in waves because ADH was not present to metabolize them into aldehydes.

nutmeg eo (and probably nuts) has non-allylbenzene constituents that are psychdealic, i do not mean psychoactive but actual psychedealic.

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#12 [url]

Jan 23 11 11:52 PM

No other major substances have been investigated in nutmeg.  Do you feel that nutmeg has other stuff in it that is psychedelic, from experience, or is this based on a paper or other gathered research?  I know nutmeg has a lot of the same terpenes as cannabis does, and these could potentially induce a sort of intoxication, possibly with psychedelia, or it may modulate the uptake of other compounds.

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vnc

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#13 [url]

Jan 24 11 4:16 AM

I feel as though I have seen all the research available for nutmeg and have seen nothing of the sort suggesting other compounds that are psychoactive. Although thre isn't much research, I will recheck the articles when I get access to my databases. The only journal article I could find that pertained to the psychopharmacological components described myristicin as a MAOI inhibitor with anticholinergic activity*.

Last Edited By: vnc Jan 24 11 6:43 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#14 [url]

Jan 28 11 12:42 AM

I'm restarting MC trials. I hope it goes better this time.

Starting a week before

  • Daily exercise
  • Daily arginine - create pyrrolidine
  • Daily lysine - create piperidine
  • Daily creatine - should help methylation

A day before
  • Soda with aspartame - deplete glutathione

T-1:00
  • Cinnamon oil - deplete glutathione; ALDH substrate; inhibit GST
  • Soy isoflavones and pomegranate extract - ALDH inhibitor taken with cinnamon oil will increase it's glutathione depleting action by preventing the formation of cinnamic acid

T-0:30
  • Soy isoflavones - induce 17bHSD2; inhibit UGT, SULT, GST, ALDH
  • Pistachios - same as above
  • Pomegranate extract - induce 17bHSD2; inhibit UGT, ALDH, xanthine oxidase, GST
  • Vitamin D3 - induce 17bHSD2
  • EGCG - inhibit SULT
  • Folic acid - induce CYP2C9
  • Star anise oil - induce CYP2C9; ALDH substrate
  • Vitamin B12 - helps with methylation maybe?

Maybe add:
  • Coffee
  • Milk thistle - inhibit UGT
  • Naproxen/ibuprofen/diclofenac - all these painkillers are substrates for UGT (and inhibit UGT2B7), but also are substrates for CYP2C9
  • Black pepper (low dose) - inhibit CYP3A4; also inhibits CYP2D6, but I'm not sure it's required (some say that MC with CYP2D6 inhibited is sedating)
  • SJW (low dose) - induce CYP2C9, CYP2E1
  • Nutmeg oil - myristicin induces CYP2E1

T-0:00
  • Basil oil (MC chemotype)

All essential oils taken in gelcaps.

How does this sound?

Last Edited By: tripstop Jan 28 11 12:46 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#15 [url]

Jan 28 11 4:46 PM

tripstop wrote:
I'm restarting MC trials. I hope it goes better this time.

Starting a week before
  • Daily exercise
  • Daily arginine - create pyrrolidine
  • Daily lysine - create piperidine
  • Daily creatine - should help methylation

A day before
  • Soda with aspartame - deplete glutathione

T-1:00
  • Cinnamon oil - deplete glutathione; ALDH substrate; inhibit GST
  • Soy isoflavones and pomegranate extract - ALDH inhibitor taken with cinnamon oil will increase it's glutathione depleting action by preventing the formation of cinnamic acid

T-0:30
  • Soy isoflavones - induce 17bHSD2; inhibit UGT, SULT, GST, ALDH
  • Pistachios - same as above
  • Pomegranate extract - induce 17bHSD2; inhibit UGT, ALDH, xanthine oxidase, GST
  • Vitamin D3 - induce 17bHSD2
  • EGCG - inhibit SULT
  • Folic acid - induce CYP2C9
  • Star anise oil - induce CYP2C9; ALDH substrate
  • Vitamin B12 - helps with methylation maybe?

Maybe add:
  • Coffee
  • Milk thistle - inhibit UGT
  • Naproxen/ibuprofen/diclofenac - all these painkillers are substrates for UGT (and inhibit UGT2B7), but also are substrates for CYP2C9
  • Black pepper (low dose) - inhibit CYP3A4; also inhibits CYP2D6, but I'm not sure it's required (some say that MC with CYP2D6 inhibited is sedating)
  • SJW (low dose) - induce CYP2C9, CYP2E1
  • Nutmeg oil - myristicin induces CYP2E1

T-0:00
  • Basil oil (MC chemotype)

All essential oils taken in gelcaps.

How does this sound?
 


all oils should be in a 50/50 ratio with olive oil in gel caps and followed RIGHT AWAY by eating a peanut butter sandwich quickly, drink as little milk as you can if you need something to wash it down with or use olive oil if you do not mind drinking it.
 
remove daily arginine.

add daily B9 and B3 and star anise oil and cinnamon oil.

add extra B3 and B9 on the day of and 60 minutes before MC ingestion.

at "T-1:00" instead of taking them all at once what you want to do is take EVERY ALDH inhibitor and substrate you have at the same time, then wait 15-25 minutes and take a medium to high dose cinnamon oil and star anise oil together, maybe 5-15 drops cinnamon oil and 20-30 drop star anise oil WARNING be careful this way of doing it will likely produce extremely potent effects as ALDH becomes extremely strongly inhibited. and glutathione will be very strongly depleted as well.

the only thing in "maybe" i would try is st johns wort 1-3 hours or more prior to MC.

so the first part should look something like:

T-3:00
Vitamin D3
Vitamin B12
Vitamin B9 1mg
50-300mg vitamin B3
1-3 grams L-lysine
ALDH inhibitor oil mixture 1-5 drops
1-5 drops cinnamon oil
5-10 drops star anise oil

T-2:00
vitamin B9 500mcg
1-3 grams L-lysine
ALDH inhibitor oil mixture 1-5 drops
1-5 drops cinnamon oil
5-10 drops star anise oil

T-1:15
1-3 grams L-lysine
Vitamin D3
Vitamin B12
Vitamin B9 100-200mcg
50-300mg vitamin B3

T-1:00 take mix of ALDH inhibitors: Soy isoflavones and pomegranate extract (including lower doses of star anise and cinnamon oils maybe 5-10 drops each)  i will post a list of oils that should be added to this step (other than cinnamon and star anise) when i dig the list up later.

T-0:50 repeat step "T-1:00" leave out soy and pomegranate for this step.

T-0:40 repeat step "T-1:00" leave out soy and pomegranate for this step.

T-0:30
  • Soy isoflavones
  • Pistachios
  • Pomegranate extract
  • EGCG HIGH DOSE
  • glucosamine - 500-1500mg
  • 1-3 grams L-lysine
  • Vitamin D3 low dose
  • Vitamin B12 medium dose
  • Vitamin B9 400 mcg
  • 50-100mg vitamin B3
  • 5-15 drops lemongrass EO
  • medium dose cinnamon and star anise oils 10 or more drops each

T-0:15
high dose cinnamon and star anise oils 15-30 drops each orally (also take 1 drop of each topically at this point, 1 cinnamon on your tailbone 1 star anise on the center of the front of your throat (mix each with olive oil first)

T-0:05
1 drop cinnamon oil
1 drop star anise oil
both in the center of your chest and mixed with olive oil

T-0:00
1-30 drops basil oil ct methyl chavicol
 

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#17 [url]

Jan 30 11 1:39 AM

tripstop wrote:
Thanks. But why remove arginine? Are pyrrolidine metabolites bad?

 
it makes the waters you are trying to develop a familiarity with more murky with several kinds of dirt.

you can try arginine in the future after you get L-lysine working, L-lysine works the best and has highest brain penetration.

if you take both it makes it so you are not learning what each does individually but instead what it feels like to create both metabolites at the same time and that creates "blind spots".

once you get L-lysine working without arginine and then another time get arginine working without L-lysine THEN it would be a good idea to try both together. that is how widely the effects of these vary some arginine metabolites might prevent you from feeling certain effects of L-lysine metabolites and visa versa.

this is a non-complete list of the essential oils that should be taken to help inhibit ALDH very strongly, i would advise putting 10-20 drops of each into an empty bottle and shaking well and letting it sit for a few hours before using it, you probably need to shake this bottle before you use it every time you use it.

cinnamon cassia bark
star anise
lemongrass
lime
orange
tangerine
ginger

maybe a few more i forget right now

avoid:
spearmint
clove
allspice

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#18 [url]

Oct 21 12 6:57 PM

This a message that 69Ron said to me:

Ron, can't sign in in this forum, but this is actually a information.

I have been able to get elemicin to activate 100% of the time using only 250 mg of genistein and 55 mg of vitamin A. This is intended to create 1'-oxoelemicin in the body and seems to be working every time. I haven't tried this with the other allylbenzenes yet. I will try soon. I would like to post this somewhere. http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/ is where I used to post most of my work, but I can't log in. Hopefully I can get my password reset.

Hope this gonna help, fresh fresh!

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#19 [url]

Feb 10 13 5:50 PM

Are you certain he said that ? There are lots of threads written by him saying one needs to inhibit many enzymes for elemicin to be converted to it's active metabolite. Don't we have to at least deplete gluthatione and provide an amine like PEA or piperidine etc for allylbenzenes to work ? Have you ever succesfully achieved a full activation with this method ? 

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sativa

superstar

Posts: 372

#20 [url]

Feb 13 13 2:30 PM

"Are you certain he said that ?"

Yes, this was a direct message from 69ron. Its his most recent communication regarding activation of Allylbenzenes, in vivo, for Ron's particular unique biophysiology.

Regarding the other factors, notably gluthionine levels, 69ron is potentially quite low in it already.

Recall that depletion of gluthionine using Cinnamon oil is safe. There is a thread detailing it all somewhere here.

Try it and report back!

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